Image help please - Brother in law?

[Just Gillian]

Nathaniel Nugent c1848 Scotland
RG10/3973; Folio 17 P30

His relationship has been transcribed Brother-in-law but it looks more like bdr in law, presumably boarder, in law, to me.

Nathaniel's brother was a boarder with the same family ten years before, but I can't find any evidence that he or Nathaniel might have been brothers of the wife Ann. Nathaniel is unmarried.

[KiteRunner]

Can you just tell us what year and country it is, please? I know I should know these RG things by now, but I can never remember what they mean!

[Just Gillian]

Sorry Kate - 1871 England.

[KiteRunner]

Mmm, yes, it certainly has in law at the end. The first word starts with b and ends with r but the middle is a bit difficult to make out. But there was no such thing as a "boarder in law" so it should be brother in law, I would have thought. Could mean stepbrother?

[Just Gillian]

Thanks for looking Kate. It's a real puzzle!

I have both Nathaniel and his brother on all other censi and they both returned to Scotland for the rest of their lives. But if Ann, the wife, had been their sister, she should have been with the family in 1841.

I can't find Hugh or Ann in 1851 although a daughter Margaret was born in Scotland c1852.

There are a few Hugh Ward trees online and they all have the wife as Ann Duff. I'm sure at least one of them must have seen a birth cert for one of the children.

[Cool Blue]

I just checked the Lancashire BMD site and found that a Hannah Ward married a Lawrence Nugent in 1838 at Manchester Cathedral
According to the IGI that was 26th Oct 1838, no other information listed
Bearing in mind my mess-up in my previous thread, this has no connection whatsoever!
Janexxx

[Just Gillian]

Thanks Jane. I'll follow up on that couple.

I'm really hoping this in-law thing leads me somewhere because Nathaniel's father, my 3xgt grandfather, had a blank space for his parents' names on his Scottish death certificate. Plus he was Irish!

[BigShaz McCreadie]

There is a Nathan Nugent on 1881 census in Lancashire boarding with Dougall family. Born Scotland c1848 and he is a Tailor too.

[Just Gillian]

Thanks Shaz. Yes, I had seen Nathaniel there in 1881. He is in Rothesay from 1891 onwards - no idea why as the rest of the family are all in the Stirling area.

[BigShaz McCreadie]

I found a Hugh Ward on the IGI parents Hugh Ward and Ann. 1853 Lancashire.

I also found marriage for Hugh Ward and Ann Duff 3rd Dec. 1850 Stirling Scotland.

Only Margaret Ward I could find born in Scotland with a father Hugh was to a Hugh and Margaret in 1851.

They seem to have quite a housefull in 1881 yet some of those weren't present on 1871 and I see they have had a son Nathaniel.

[BigShaz McCreadie]

Rothesay isn't that far away really :D

It doesn't strike me as odd at all especially since he has spent all that time in England away from the family.

It's quite common for them to move away back then.

[Just Gillian]

Sorry Shaz - my sister phoned when I was half way through this reply.

They seem to have quite a housefull in 1881 yet some of those weren't present on 1871 .

I hadn't noticed that Shaz! I'll go and track them down - they may turn up in a useful relative's family.

I thought the choice of Nathaniel for one of the sons might be significant as it's not that common a name. But it's just occurred to me that it originated from the Carrick side, so maybe that is where the relationship comes from. But I've traced the Carrick side fairly thoroughly and there are no Wards or Duffs.

I think maybe I'll send a couple of messages to the Ann Duff/Hugh Ward tree owners first to see whether they have seen a birth cert.

The Nugents were Irish so, if it was a Catholic marriage it wouldn't be on SP anyway.

The Bute Nathaniel finally married for the first time when he was 47!

[Just Gillian]

:o:o I've just looked on the map - I had Rothesay and Stornaway confused!! You're right, it's not far at all!

[BigShaz McCreadie]

:D I have had your lot going over and over in my head all evening.

I keep thinking that Ann was the mother of Nathaniel can't get that thought out of my head.

I did see a Mary Ann Nugent on a census somewhere near Stirling I'm sure of it but then I also seen an Ann Duff

I keep asking myself why would a Mary Ann Nugent give birth and then become Ann Duff.

I'm off to look some more because this is bugging the life out of me. And where were Thomas etc. On 1871 census? They soon showed up again on 1881 Off to look at them too ...lol

[Just Gillian]

Thanks Shaz. I've been going through my notes all evening Shaz to see if there were any marriages anywhere I'd missed that might throw up the Ward or Duff names.

Ann is old enough to be Nathaniel's mother. His "official" mother would have been 45 when she had him. But, where was she in 1841 when she was only about 10?

I've e-mailed a descendant of Nathaniel's Carrick uncle to see if she knows of any mentions of Wards or Duffs on that side.

[BigShaz McCreadie]

Got your message to Gillian and I'm going to try and get my head round all of this. The answer is probably staring us in the face.

Oh I get like a dog with a bone at times... By the way your ancesters and OH's ancesters were probably drinking buddies :D

And whilst my 2xGreat Grandfather wasnt old enough to drink he may have played in the street with your ancestors.
He was born in Lower Bridge St when his parents and siblings moved their from Glasgow for a couple of years. Both him and one sister were born there before the family went back to Glasgow.

Small world eh :D

[Just Gillian]

lol Shaz fancy that! And didn't we find some recentish Tillicoultry connection too back in the days on GR?

I uploaded an updated tree on to Tribal Pages earlier this evening but I've just noticed the census refs have all arrived there upside down, so I'm not sure what I did wrong this time, or if any of the other info is scrambled too. I'll have to fix it tomorrow as I think my brain has gone into standby mode for tonight.

Thanks for helping.

[Durham Lady]

Gillian, you do know that Margaret (from Brading) has Irish Nugents don't you?

[Just Gillian]

Hi Daphne!

Yes - we've talked about our Nugents. Unfortunately, all I have for mine so far is "born Ireland" :(
That's why I'm hoping this unexpected "in law" on the census might lead to more Nugent information.

I'd be more than happy to find that Margaret and I were related, but I'm not sure she'd say the same! :D:D

[Durham Lady]

I'd be more than happy to find that Margaret and I were related, but I'm not sure she'd say the same!

:D Gillian, it would be funny if you were with both ending up living on the Island :D
You never know what new info she'll come back with from her trip to Ireland for the wedding.