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Freegards - help needed to find in 1891

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  • Freegards - help needed to find in 1891

    Am in touch with someone in Canada who has researched this bit of my distant tree and like me can't find this couple in 1891. It could be their name has been transcribed wrongly. The wife has died by 1901 when John is described as a widower.

    My ancestor is: Ellen Elizabeth Pinniger: Can’t find her clearly on Birth Index. Her family of origin were in South Marston, Wilts. Civil par/reg/sub-reg district: Highworth in 1871. I have all their census records and Thomas Freegard's family at Bradenstoke Abbey.

    Marriage: Ellen Elizabeth Pinniger to Thomas Freegard 1873 Apr q Highworth

    1881 Census: Ellen Elizabeth Freegard b1851 English Combe, Somerset. Farmer’s Wife
    Spouse: Thomas Freegard b1846 Lyneham, Bradenstoke Abbey, Wilts
    Farmer/Butcher - 110 acres employing 4 men, 2 boys.

    Address: New House Civil par: Didcot, Berks
    Reg district: Wallingford Sub-reg district: Cholsey ED, institution: 5

    1901 Census Thomas Freegard b1847 Braden Stoke, Wilts -Widower - Boarder – Farm Bailiff.

    Address/civil par: Upper Lambourn Ecc par: Lambourn St Michael, Berks
    Reg district: Hungerford Sub-reg district: Lambourn
    ED, institution: 4 Household sch: 31

    It would be good to find them in 1891 to see if they had any children. He apparently died in 1921. Can't find Ellen's death yet.

    No rush, but anyone fancy having a go. I think Elaine might be fed up with Pinnigers from yesterday's thread... They can be spelled Pinegar or variations on that theme.

    Many thanks. Liz

    Update - I spelled Ellen's name incorrectly above - it's one of those names! Corrected now.
    Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 24-02-08, 12:23.
    Liz

  • #2
    No luck yet, But I am still looking
    Vikki -
    Researching Titchmarsh and Tushingham

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Vikki. Liz
      Liz

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Liz from Lancs View Post

        No rush, but anyone fancy having a go. I think Elaine might be fed up with Pinnigers from yesterday's thread... They can be spelled Pinegar or variations on that theme.
        Elaine







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        • #5
          Hi Elaine...just as you thought it was safe to come on again. Liz

          Update: Disappearing now for the day. Back tomorrow. Thanks for trying to find them. Liz
          Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 24-02-08, 12:44.
          Liz

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          • #6
            Possible birth registration under the name of Elizabeth

            Elizabeth Pinniger
            1848 2nd quarter
            District: Bath
            Volume: 11
            Page: ???

            Registration district for Englishcombe is Bath.
            Elaine







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            • #7
              I don't suppose it helps but this could be his brother John in 1891 ?

              RG12; Piece: 1587; Folio 46; Page 8; GSU roll: 6096697.


              Joanie

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              • #8
                Thomas Fingards 1891

                Piece 997; Folio 94; Page 13;

                Best I could find.... I'm all freegarded out :D
                Probably totally the wrong guy but never say never.

                I think its been mistranscribed and looks like Freegards to me but then Smith would look like Freegard to me right now.

                The age is wrong too and he is single and a traveller but he is in Berkshire and was born in a place that they have transcribed as Bradmolotte Abbly, Wiltshire.

                Worth a look I suppose.
                With Experience comes Realisation

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                  Possible birth registration under the name of Elizabeth

                  Elizabeth Pinniger
                  1848 2nd quarter
                  District: Bath
                  Volume: 11
                  Page: ???

                  Registration district for Englishcombe is Bath.

                  That page number looks like 41 to me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BigShaz McCreadie View Post
                    Thomas Fingards 1891

                    Piece 997; Folio 94; Page 13;

                    Best I could find.... I'm all freegarded out :D
                    Probably totally the wrong guy but never say never.

                    I think its been mistranscribed and looks like Freegards to me but then Smith would look like Freegard to me right now.

                    The age is wrong too and he is single and a traveller but he is in Berkshire and was born in a place that they have transcribed as Bradmolotte Abbly, Wiltshire.

                    Worth a look I suppose.
                    Of course if she had died by 1891, he may have described himself as single, rather than a widower?


                    Joanie

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                    • #11
                      Please be patient with me because this English searching is a whole new experience but I like to help.

                      I've looked for deaths (this 14 day free trail thingy is good :D) for Ellen Freegard.

                      I'm searching between 1881 and 1991 and have found these.... I hope I do this right.

                      1882, Q3, Elizabeth Freegard aged 38, 5a, 13. (did I do that right?)
                      Anyway the place is Cricklade and I googled and thats in Wiltshire.


                      I'll carry on looking!
                      With Experience comes Realisation

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How far away is Tytherton from Bradenstoke Abbey??
                        'Cos there's this Thomas with a parents. He is a widower, but occupation is Thatcher.

                        RG12; Piece: 1596; Folio 13; Page 2

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                        • #13
                          Just popped in before switching off pooter. Thanks everyone. Will follow the links you have found. Ellen's lot came under Cricklade...

                          This is Thomas Freegard's family in 1871: NB Father has died:

                          1871 Census Thomas Freegard b1846 Bradenstoke, Wilts - Single – Farmer’s son.
                          Household
                          Mo: Sarah Freegard b1814 Hilmarton? Widow Farmer 362 acres,
                          employing 12 men, 5 women, 5 boys.
                          Sister: Mary Freegard 36 Single
                          Sister: Jane Freegard 21 “
                          Sister: Elizabeth Iles 30 Married (all born Bradenstoke)
                          Neice: Emma Iles 3 weeks b Dauntsey

                          Address: Bradenstoke Abbey
                          Civil par: Lyneham Ecc parish: St Mary Town: Bradenstoke, Wilts
                          Reg district: Cricklade Sub-reg district: Wootton Bassett

                          Liz
                          Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 24-02-08, 13:36.
                          Liz

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                          • #14
                            Good morning folks. Thanks for your efforts yesterday.

                            Birth of Ellen Elizabeth Pinniger - she is referred to as Ellen E throughout the census records from childhood up, her marriage entry is Ellen E. Will never know, I suppose, if Elizabeth records were her. She is not direct enough an ancestor for me to buy certs...

                            Did I dream it or are certs going to be able to be read for about £3 online one day??

                            Ancestry is just not bringing up that census 1891 for Thomas Freegards, single, traveller even with the refs typed in....grrr. Don't think it is him. Would he go from farmer of hundreds of acres in census before and farm bailiff census after if a traveller?

                            Some of Ellen E's siblings are just as elusive in census records. I suppose they were allowed to go away for hols??

                            Am writing them up now in word docs. Thanks to everyone's help on here, know a lot more about that side shoot of my family tree.

                            Liz
                            Liz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Liz,

                              I noticed that in 1871 the farm consisted of 362 acres and 12 men, 5 women and 5 boys were employed.

                              However by 1881 there was only 110 acres and only 4 men and 2 boys employed (admittedly less land to farm needs less hands)

                              But if 252 acres of land could be lost over 10 years then who knows what may have happened in the next 10yrs.

                              Thomas could well have gone travelling for a time (1891) before returning to what he knew best (farming) and became a farm baliff? (1901)

                              I have been googling and found this.... you may already have come across it.

                              Lyneham Village - The History

                              This site not only mentions a farmhouse called Bradenstoke Abbey but it mentions a couple of Freegard Farmers and a bit of history about the area
                              With Experience comes Realisation

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Yes thanks for that...I did enjoy googling about it and through one of the website entries am in contact with a Canadian member of the family. I put another separate thread up about Bradenstoke.

                                Will have another go at trying to find that census - Ancestry just wasn't bringing it up. Liz

                                Update - something happened without me pressing anything and this was done without me finishing.

                                If he was a bailiff, would that have been by the very nature of the job, on a large estate/farm? Upper Lambourn has a N.Trust estate nearby - should I be cheeky and contact them asking if he was there? Would he have had his own house rather than boarding if managing a big estate?

                                Here are his details again with a bit about Lambourne:

                                [Upper Lambourn is a small village in Berks. Situated in the civil parish of Lambourn, it is 1.2 miles (2 km) to the north of the village of Lambourn, just off the Lambourn to Shrivenham road. The parish is within the district of W. Berkshire, close to the Berkshire-Wiltshire border.
                                The famous prehistoric Seven Barrows are at Upper Lambourn. Ashdown House lies approximately 2.5 miles (4.0 km) to the north-west, on the Shrivenham road.]

                                1901 Census Thomas Freegard b1847 Braden Stoke, Wilts. Widower. Boarder. Farm Bailiff.
                                living with Barrett family and another boarder, a stable man.

                                Address/civil par: Upper Lambourn Ecc par: Lambourn St Michael, Berks
                                Reg district: Hungerford Sub-reg district: Lambourn
                                ED, institution: 4 Household sch: 31

                                Liz
                                Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 25-02-08, 19:12.
                                Liz

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                                • #17
                                  Do you have 1861?

                                  Piece: 1273; Folio: 17; Page: 13;

                                  Think this is them again in 1861 Liz,

                                  They had even more acres back then.
                                  With Experience comes Realisation

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                                  • #18
                                    Yes thanks, me dear - have got them going back and the man from Canada has a website with all the early stuff on. Liz
                                    Liz

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                                    • #19
                                      I've just googled about farm bailliff and someone has got this from an old Webster's dictionary:

                                      ... the term "Bailiff" - which is a word which has multiple meanings but which all boil down to some kind of subservient deputy. Which meaning applies depends on context. In this case the context is reasonably clear. The definition given in my mid-19th century Webster's Dictionary applies: "An overseer or under-steward on an estate appointed to direct husbandry operations, collect rents, etc." Basically John was almost certainly a paid employee running a farm for someone else. This often happened when there was a large house with a home farm. Often the well-to-do person living in the house left the running of the farm to a bailiff - so a re-examination of the census returns for ...... may suggest who his employer might have been.

                                      Should check the Wiki here about such things... Liz

                                      UPDATE: Followed above advice and went 3 pages on the census, all the entries are farm workers back to Middle Farm. Head and Farmer/Employer: Emerson E Keable b1857. As it does give his acres or how many employing, perhaps too many to put on. All shepherds, ploughboys, cattle and cow men - so a real mix. Liz
                                      Last edited by Liz from Lancs; 25-02-08, 23:07.
                                      Liz

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