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  • Can you help please

    Hello, On the 1851 census it seems that Elizabeth Crump born 1814 in Wandsworth was married John Spornal Born in Overton 1808 in Lans: But we can't really read his name . Nowhere can we find a birth for him . It looks like Gornale to me but again seeing he said he was born in Overton I am not sure. :o Can you read it for me and perhaps decipher his surname ????
    Thank you very much
    Sheila walking cat.gif
    I think, therefore I am. Descarte

  • #2
    i cant find anyone on 1851 called John Spornal

    got it
    Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1578; Folio: 8; Page: 8; GSU roll: 174814.
    John Spornale on ancestry
    Jess

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    • #3
      How do you know his bride was Elizabeth crump?
      Jess

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      • #4
        Jess Her father was John Crump(1776 ) of Worcester a Tailor, and their Daughter Elizabeth married John ?? of Overton her sister Mary Ann she married John Fuller my Greatgrandfather
        Sheila
        Last edited by Sheila from Down Under; 24-02-08, 13:12.
        I think, therefore I am. Descarte

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        • #5
          The surname looks like Gornell or Gornill to me. Have you found them on any other census, Sheila?
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sheila from Down Under View Post
            Jess Her father was John Crump(1776 ) of Worcester a Tailor, and their Daughter Elizabeth married John ?? of Overton they that a daughter also Elizabeth she married John Fuller my Greatgrandfather
            Sheila
            Sheila, don't you have Elizabeth jr's surname from her marriage? Or from her child's birth certificate? And wouldn't her surname be the same as her father's?
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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            • #7
              but how can you know all that,if you dont knowthe surname? or am i missing somthing obvious here?
              Jess

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              • #8
                .....and their Daughter Elizabeth married John ?? of Overton

                so who was she? Elizabeth who??
                Jess

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                • #9
                  I'm confused too....

                  Found the Crump family on 1841 or I presume its them.

                  Piece 1069; Folio 27; page 15;

                  Elizabeth is unmarried at this time and has lost 17yrs in the space of 10ys but whats new... lol

                  So I guess she married John ??? somewhere between 1841 and 1851.

                  When was Elizabeth Jr born? Obviously after 1851 or she'd be on the census.
                  With Experience comes Realisation

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                  • #10
                    Since "Spornale" only brings up the 1851 census entry, its clear its been mistranscribed. It looks like "Gor- something" if you compare the G with the Green of a lady a bit further down.
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                    • #11
                      Not sure who 17 year old Elizabeth is? There's a 17 year old Mary Crump in 1851, who I imagine is a connection of Elizabeth's though she is listed as lodger. Elizabeth is old enough to be Mary's mother, but could be her big sister, or an aunt.
                      What isn't clear are the William, Joseph and elderly widowed John who you say is Elizabeth's father, so are Mary, William and Joseph all Crump siblings? I can't see any of their births on Freebmd in Wandsworth.
                      There's a death for a Mary Crump in Wandsworth in 1847, would this be John Crump's wife?
                      Last edited by Little Nell; 24-02-08, 10:18.
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This looks like the marriage of the 1851 couple. Don't know what they'd be doing in Yeovil, though:

                        Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)
                        Bennett George Yeovil 10 877
                        CHANT Betsy Kingwell Yeovil 10 877
                        CRUMP Elizabeth Sarah Yeovil 10 877
                        Gornell John Yeovil 10 877
                        GORNILL John Yeovil 10 877

                        They're together in Wandsworth in 1861 with daughter Elizabeth, 9 and son John, 6:

                        RG9; Piece: 373; Folio: 55; Page: 8
                        Last edited by Mary from Italy; 24-02-08, 10:22.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                          Not sure who 17 year old Elizabeth is? There's a 17 year old Mary Crump in 1851, who I imagine is a connection of Elizabeth's though she is listed as lodger. Elizabeth is old enough to be Mary's mother, but could be her big sister, or an aunt.
                          What isn't clear are the William, Joseph and elderly widowed John who you say is Elizabeth's father, so are Mary, William and Joseph all Crump siblings? I can't see any of their births on Freebmd in Wandsworth.
                          There's a death for a Mary Crump in Wandsworth in 1847, would this be John Crump's wife?
                          No Nell.... I said she lost 17yrs or should have said gained 17yrs in space of 10yrs.

                          On 1841 Elizabeth is 20yrs and on 1851 she is 37yrs.
                          With Experience comes Realisation

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                          • #14
                            There's a John & ELizabeth Gornall in 1861 in Wandsworth with a 9 year old daur Elizabeth and a son of 6. All born Wandsworth except John.

                            This John snr is born Cumberland Carlisle, but is an ag lab. Age is given as 45 but has been crossed over with 6? recorded above. This Elizabeth is only 40.
                            ~ with love from Little Nell~
                            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                            • #15
                              Births for the above children?
                              Births Mar 1852 Gornall Elizabeth Barbara Wandsworth 1d 396
                              Births Mar 1855 Gornall John Richard Wandsworth 1d 408
                              ~ with love from Little Nell~
                              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                              • #16
                                I have googled "Overton " and that told me that the one listed was in Hampshire. I have not been able to find the "Crumps" after 1851 census.
                                It is now 10:30 pm, so I am off to bed,, Good Night
                                Sheila
                                Last edited by Sheila from Down Under; 24-02-08, 12:33.
                                I think, therefore I am. Descarte

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                                • #17
                                  There are lots of Overtons, Sheila, including one near Lancaster which should be the right one.
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                                  • #18
                                    Good Morning Kiterunner, I just Googled Overton and that 's what thay said. there were over 700,000 referances to 'Overton " that is why I was not getting anywhere, I think.

                                    Thank you all for your help, I'll take a hard copy of the thread and look at it over the
                                    "morning cuppa ", there is so much information , Thank you again
                                    Sheila
                                    I think, therefore I am. Descarte

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