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  • Late/Delayed Baptism???

    How common was it for a child in the late 1700s to be baptised after her father's remarriage? I'll explain.....

    James and Elizabeth have 5 children, the last being Jemima who is baptised in 1784 and buried in 1785.

    I know from the parish records that another Jemima is born in 1786 and her parents are James and Mary.

    Now I have never found a burial for Elizabeth but am 99.9% sure she died after having Jemima, there being no further baptisms for this young couple.

    All this takes place in one village in Suffolk.

    I have now had a contact who descends from one of the numerous children of the James and Mary and she has their marriage as 1783 so a year before the first Jemima's baptism.

    So my thinking is that it is possible that James married Mary after Elizabeth's death and they had the second Jemima.

    My question is... How likely is it that a child's baptism would be delayed till after a second marriage? Even if James was distraught at his first wife's death, possibly in childbirth, surely the vicar would have been in to sort it out or any of James' extended family that occupied a good proportion of the village?

    I have asked my contact to confirm the source for the marriage so I can check it out but I just wondered if anyone had come across anything similar.

    Many thanks
    Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

    'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

  • #2
    Baptism has nothing whatever to do with parents' marriage, remarriage - or lack of marriage!

    I think you need to establish when Elizabeth died by checking the burial register, and then find the 2nd marriage.

    Why do you think Jemima was baptised twice? You have one Jemima who died and then another - but only one baptism for each unless I've misunderstood.* Sometimes it seems there are 2 baptisms, but these nearly always turn out to be a private one performed shortly after birth, usually because the baby seems likely to die, followed by an official one in church.

    *I have misunderstood, sorry!
    Last edited by Little Nell; 23-02-08, 22:06.
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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    • #3
      Perhaps the 1783 marriage is someone misreading 1785? It;s very easy to muddle numbers in handwriting, almost as easy as misreading letters.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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      • #4
        No, this isn't making logic, sorry. Are you absolutely positive that there weren't TWO men called James, one married to Elizabeth who died and another married to Mary who didn't die?

        As the two James' would almost certainly be related then it is not unlikely that they would both have daughters called Jemima, which will probably turn out to be a family name anyway.

        You need to see the pr to see James' status at the marriage to Mary, although a widower isnt always described as such in my experience, causing me much confusion!

        OC

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        • #5
          What is the surname?
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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          • #6
            Sorry Nell if I have confused you

            There are two Jemimas.

            First Jemima to James and Elizabeth
            Second to James and Mary

            The first Jemima is baptised the year after her father's suggested remarriage to Mary.

            So what I am wondering is how common it was for a baptism to be delayed to after a father's new marriage.
            Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

            'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

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            • #7
              Well, if this IS the same James, you are asking why the delay, but a child being baptised up to 2 years or more after its birth isn't that uncommon. It might not have anything at all to do with the 2nd marriage.

              I have several instances in my research of children being baptised when they were 5.
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                Surname Radford.

                OC
                This is what I am trying to establish

                My research has only dealt with James and Elizabeth and the first Jemima.
                I did have a note of the second Jemima born to James and Mary but I did not research any further.

                My contact has now given me the information that Mary was 'my' James' second wife and I have asked for the source details for this marriage.
                Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

                'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nell

                  I have just never come across the scenario before and I wondered if it was common.

                  Child born, mother dies, father remarries and child then baptised.

                  Many thanks for your help
                  Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

                  'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is probably pointless to speculate until you receive details of the marriage but in MY experience, when a mother died, the Vicar took the opportunity to also baptise all her unbaptised children. That would usually be only one, newborn, but I have seen two or three children baptised at their mother's funeral and noted as such in the register.

                    The fee for baptism was often waived if performed at a funeral....

                    'corse, there could have been three Jemimas, two died and the third, born to the second marriage, survived!

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      As for odd baptisms, my gt x 2 grandfather Emmets Matthews was baptised 1801 and on the same day his mother was baptised. Very odd as she'd already married in the same church and had her elder child baptised.
                      ~ with love from Little Nell~
                      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OC

                        That is what I thought, that the vicar would have stepped in and had the first Jemima baptised.
                        Sadly there are no additional notes made by the vicar at the time of the first Jemima's baptism.....Oh I wish there were! Something along the lines of 'late mother Elizabeth' would have been helpful

                        And pleeeese....Not another Jemima LOL

                        Nell
                        I think you could well be right that the second marriage may have been in 1785 and misread as 1783.

                        Hopefully my contact will come back with the source for the second marriage which isn't just the submitted entry shown on the IGI

                        Thank you both for your help.
                        Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

                        'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

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                        • #13
                          On he IGI I can only see a James Radford-Mary marriage in Suffolk in 1822 which seems completely out
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                          • #14
                            Nell

                            I have visions of a very new officious or enthusiastic vicar going back through his records to check that all the 'i's were dotted and 't's crossed and finding an anomoly deciding to get it 'sorted' :D
                            Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

                            'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

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                            • #15
                              I would lay odds that the year for either the baptism or the marriage is wrong, or that there are two different Jameses. It seems very unlikely that they waited two years to have Jemima baptised after her mother died, and that it doesn't mention her mother being dead on the baptism entry.
                              KiteRunner

                              Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                              (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                              • #16
                                Nell

                                There is a submitted for a James Radford and Mary Web(b) 16 May 1783 at Great Bradley but it takes some finding.
                                Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

                                'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  KiteRunner

                                  The PRs have been checked on film through the LDS and the Suffolk FHS have an online transcription that give the same information for the first Jemima's baptism and burial and the second Jemima's baptism.

                                  Although neither James and Elizabeth or the James and Mary are my direct line I think this is turning into an itch that will need to be scratched

                                  Depending on my contact's reply I may need to order in the relevant film(s) at my local LDS centre!

                                  Many thanks for your help
                                  Last edited by Chris in Sussex; 23-02-08, 23:10.
                                  Avatar....My darling mum, Irene June Robinson nee Pearson 1931-2019.

                                  'Take nothing on its looks, take everything on evidence. There is no better rule' Charles Dickens, Great Expectations.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Sounds like two James' to me, but that doesn't stop your James from having a second wife named Mary.

                                    As for the baptism, do you have the older childrens' baptisms. Were they baptised as babies? Could the first wife have been no-conformist and the second wife not, and wanted the little baptised. I have a few of those in my tree. Even have one where the mother was baptised after her third child have been born, and her children all baptised as babies. Could have been several reasons.

                                    I'd try to make sure you are not following two families.

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                                    • #19
                                      Are you sure that these 2 James' aren't cousins using a family name of Jemima for their daughters?
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                                      • #20
                                        I recently found the baptism of an 18 year old but no mention of who the mother was, only the father was named. I assumed that maybe she was being baptised prior to getting mnarried. After looking into it further it turns out that her mother appears to have died during child birth or with in days of giving birth. It was another 7 years before the 18 year old married.

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