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Can twins be registered on different pages?

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  • Can twins be registered on different pages?

    Hi

    Family lore states that my Sexton's had a few sets of twins over the years, always stillborn or not living for long.

    I was searching FreeBMD and can see a couple of possible sets. One is:

    Births Mar 1915
    SEXTON Lily / Thomas / St.Olave / 1d 318
    SEXTON Mary / Thomas / St.Olave / 1d 320

    Deaths Mar 1915
    Sexton Lily / 0 / St. Olave / 1d 226
    Sexton Mary / 0 / St. Olave / 1d 227


    However, both pages for birth and death are different. The mother's surname is the same (and matches what I have). Do you think they are twins and, if so, why are they listed separately on the page? (Basic genealogy stuff I'm guessing but couldn't find the answer anywhere!)

    Thanks in advance.

    Jo
    :D Charney Jo

  • #2
    Yes - they can be on separate pages.

    I have just checked OH's birth entry in 1946. He has an identical twin, and one was on page 1174 (his brother) and he is on page 1175. I assume that the one who is first alphabetically will go first. (Have checked with other twins in the family)

    The further apart they are alphabetically, the greater the likelihood of their being on different pages, I would imagine.

    So I would think your little girls are twins. Very sad. :(
    Elizabeth
    Research Interests:
    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

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    • #3
      Apart from higher infant mortality generally in the past, twins would be more susceptible as more likely to be born premature and also to have lower birthweight.
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks very much for the replies. I never really knew whether to believe the twins story as there are no other twins in the family at all.

        I can understand the next page but 2 pages difference seems quite a lot for a name that's not too common (well, not like Smith!). Especially as the names follow on from each other in the alphabet anyway.

        Well, it's definately worth a punt at the certificates. Now, which will be the most useful - birth or death (I'm thinking death because they must have the same details as birth but a cause of death on) Does that sound right?

        Thanks again
        :D Charney Jo

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        • #5
          OH's brother is "D" and OH "G" but they were on separate pages. So only a couple of letters apart.
          Elizabeth
          Research Interests:
          England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
          Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

          Comment


          • #6
            Hmmm ... OK. Just looked on Ancestry and there is a Lilian and a Lily, both with the mother Thomas, both St.Olave / 1d 318.

            When I looked on FreeBMD I thought it was the same person just a different name transcribed.

            Now, my question is, could one child be listedtwice on the birth records?

            There was no mention of triplets :D
            :D Charney Jo

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            • #7
              As a death has to be registered with six days (I think) but a birth must be registered in 6 weeks, I wonder..

              If one twin died shortly after birth, someone went to rwgister the death and discovered they had to register the birth first. They did not register the other twin at the time (too upset?) but later realised they needed to and went back. This would account for a few pages difference in the registrations.

              Otherwise, twins registered at the same time can only be one page apart - bottom of one page, top of the next page.

              OC

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              • #8
                The birth doesn't have to be registered before the death, though, does it? We have come across some cases where the birth was registered after the death, because the person registering the death was not the person who should register the birth.

                I can't see why twins would be more than one page number apart either, unless the page in between was ruined or something. Could be that one of the page numbers is wrong on the index, I suppose.

                I am pretty sure that twins' births would normally be registered either in the order in which they were born, or boy then girl, not in alphabetical order of name. But on the index they will be listed alphabetically, of course.

                As for appearing twice on the birth indexes, one of my rellies is listed twice, apparently because they decided to change his name after registering him - but the second index entry has an a after the page number, meaning that the page was inserted at a later stage.
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                • #9
                  Maybe page 319 was damaged or accidentally missed out and the next entry put two pages ahead instead of one.
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                  • #10
                    Human error can make all sorts of things possible!
                    Elizabeth
                    Research Interests:
                    England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                    Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Charney Jo View Post
                      Hmmm ... OK. Just looked on Ancestry and there is a Lilian and a Lily, both with the mother Thomas, both St.Olave / 1d 318.

                      When I looked on FreeBMD I thought it was the same person just a different name transcribed.

                      Now, my question is, could one child be listedtwice on the birth records?

                      There was no mention of triplets :D

                      This one could be that the person compiling the index couldn't read what it said on the certificate and so put both possibilities on the index.
                      KiteRunner

                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay, I've got another wacky theory, having looked at all the matches for those pages on FreeBMD. Pages 318, 319 and 320 have 5 entries each, so it does look as if Lilian and Lily are two separate entries after all. (Though of course it could be that there is an entry that hasn't been transcribed yet or has a mistranscribed page no)
                        So I reckon that maybe Dad went off to the register office and thought it would be cute to call the twins Lily and Lilian and registered them as such, but when he went home and told Mum, she hit the roof and said the names were too similar and he had to go back and change the name of one of them to Mary! When they went back to change the name, a new certificate was filled in hence the new page number.
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No, sorry, a birth doesn't HAVE to be registered before a death, but if someone went to register the death then the Registrar might have asked if the birth had been registered.

                          I have told this tale before of two James Holdens who married two Mary Slaters and both produced a son within days of each other and registered them at the same time.

                          I thought it was an error, one birth registered twice. Only when I rang the RO just to check that the other one WAS a duplicate, did the clever Registrar spot that although the details were apparently identical, the birth dates were 3 days apart and the address slightly different. They had the same page numbers of course.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            If someone went to register the death of a child, they might not be eligible to register the birth as well (eg if they were present at the death but had nothing to do with the birth), so the registrar might ask the death informant to ask the parent (or someone else eligible to register the birth) to remember to complete the registration process.

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                            • #15
                              Hmmm ... thanks very much for all your thoughts. I love this site!

                              I guess I will just have to order the certificates. I will let you know I get back ... However, does that mean I need to get all the birth and death certs (i.e. 5 certs!)??????
                              :D Charney Jo

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                              • #16
                                On the birth extracts of my Gr Grandfather and his twin brother it is the eldest that was registered first (times of birth verify this). They are on the bottom of one page and the top of the other and it is noted in the margin that they are twins.


                                researching Matchett, McFarland, Dick, Ewing, Koehler or Kohler, Nairn and Young.

                                Raven's Wiki Page
                                Raven's Family Tree

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                                • #17
                                  If my theory about one of the twins (Lilian?) being re-registered as Mary is correct, then I wonder what will happen if you order the Lilian certificate? I'm not sure if they will say they can't do that one, but of course the only way to find out is to order it.
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If the name is changed after first registration, then you should be back to the "###a" scenario, with the new name being put in Column 10 (I think it is - near the end, anyway). There shouldn't be a completely new registration.

                                    Christine
                                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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