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Can you find this mystery Mum?

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  • Can you find this mystery Mum?

    Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

    Birth cert:
    Herbert George Purvey
    14 December 1897, Queen Charlottes Hospital, Marylebone Road.
    Herbert George. Mother: Emily Purvey, cook, domestic, of Fulham.
    Informant, E. Purvey, mother, 23 Dieppe Street, West Kensington, 18th December 1897. No father named.


    1901
    1 Turneville/Furneville [?] Road, Fulham [3 rooms]
    Donald Fraser 33 [1868] electric light labourer Scotland
    Ellen J Fraser 36 wife b. Gloucestershire Northleach
    Herbert G Purvey 3 nephew b. London Marylebone

    I want to trace Herbert’s mother Emily Purvey.

    Ellen J. Fraser was born Ellen Jane Panter. I am fairly certain she was illegitimate. Her mother Ann was 2nd wife of my gt X 2 grandfather John Purvey, and Ellen is called Purvey on 1881 census, even though she is living away from home. She reverted to Panter for her marriage to Donald Fraser.
    So, methinks Herbert must be a son of one of Ellen’s stepsisters or half-sisters, but none of them is called Emily.

    I have found an Emily Purvey in 1891
    1891 census
    Kingscote, Gloucestershire
    Emily Purvey Age: 19 1872 Servant scullery maid Born: Chedworth, Gloucestershire

    This would fit, as John Purvey was also born Chedworth, and I can see that Emily might well graduate from scullery maid (1891 census occupation) to cook (Herbert’s birth cert).

    But I can’t see a candidate who could be Emily in previous censuses and I can’t tie her into Ellen Panter/Purvey/Fraser. Nor can I find a likely Emily Purvey baptism.
    John and Ann Panter did have a daughter called Amelia which is sometimes muddled with Emily, except that Amelia was dead by 1889.

    Ideas, please?
    Last edited by Little Nell; 03-04-10, 20:22.
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

  • #2
    An added complication is that John and Ann had a daughter born 1872 in Chedworth called Charity. In 1901 she is working in Chelsea as a cook.

    I can't find her in 1891. Did she change her name to Emily to appear in 1891 and have an illegitimate child?

    I don't know, but my mum who remembers her Great Aunt Chat thinks it unlikely she had an illegitimate child. Mum spent several Xmases with Aunt Chat who was a lovely lady. I could see she might change her name because she disliked it, or because she wanted to hide her identity - but in 1891 she wouldn't have known she was going to have an illegitimate child - and she was certainly known as Charity/Chat both before and after 1891.
    Last edited by Little Nell; 03-04-10, 20:21.
    ~ with love from Little Nell~
    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Little Nell View Post

      Ideas, please?
      Go down the pub??

      Comment


      • #4
        I was just going to ask exactly what you have said in your last post (about Charity)

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        • #5
          It couldn't be the "Upstairs Downstairs factor"?? I see Emily was at Kingscote Park in 1891 which, by the number of servants, seems to be quite grand.......Maybe her mistress didn't approve of the name
          "Charity" for one reason or anyother and determined "Emily" was a suitable name for a domestic servant?

          Comment


          • #6
            That's a possibility that hadn't occurred to me, Merry. Thanks.
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

            Comment


            • #7
              Not going down the pub, but I do have a nice chardonnay in the fridge. My younger son is pestering me as he wants to wallop me in chess!
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                Not going down the pub, but I do have a nice chardonnay in the fridge. My younger son is pestering me as he wants to wallop me in chess!

                Do the motherly thing and let him beat you quickly Nell then you can open the wine and think about Emily :D

                I wish I was more clued up with English research I'd love to help but afraid I'm pretty useless
                With Experience comes Realisation

                Comment


                • #9
                  My son stuffed me. He is a good player, but I am hopeless, much to my chagrin. I always lost to my Dad and my brother and both my sons could beat me virtually as soon as they started playing - I think chess suits the male brain.

                  As for Emily - I just wish I could confirm/disprove that she is/was Charity.

                  I don't see that I can though. She married in 1907 and I am fairly sure Herbert never lived with her. If I find him on 1911 census he'll probably either be boarding with another rellie or striking out on his own.
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    UPDATE

                    Since this I've found 1911 census entry for Charity now married and she has an older child Dorothy Coronna (my mum remembers her as Cousin Dolly) whose baptism on the LMA records online shows she was also illegit! So more plausible that Charity was really Emily and had two illegit children. But I don't know what happened to Herbert - perhaps he emigrated or was adopted and given a different surname.
                    ~ with love from Little Nell~
                    Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Herbert George Purvey
                      14 Dec 1895
                      Dec 1973
                      Surrey
                      5G
                      440
                      is this the Herbert you are looking for

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is a Bertie Purvey born 1897 address in Banbury on ancestry's WW1 service records but i can only find one page not 4 as it states so cant see next of kin.
                        Angelina

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                        • #13
                          Val

                          That was quick! The birthdate is out by 2 years though I have found a marriage for a Herbert G Purvey in Surrey in 1935. Something to make a note of, thank you.
                          ~ with love from Little Nell~
                          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Angelina

                            Thank you! I've got the same thing, I guess they've misfilmed this, which is frustrating.
                            Last edited by Little Nell; 03-04-10, 17:40.
                            ~ with love from Little Nell~
                            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Can't find either Herbert or a likely Bertie in Banbury (address given in WW1 record) in 1911 census to confirm or eliminate!
                              ~ with love from Little Nell~
                              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                              • #16
                                we all know how dates can be a few years out Nell but I thought it was worth looking at ?

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                                • #17
                                  Well the fact that the birthdate is exactly right and Purvey isn't that common a name does make me think this is him.
                                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    Originally posted by angelina View Post
                                    There is a Bertie Purvey born 1897 address in Banbury on ancestry's WW1 service records but i can only find one page not 4 as it states so cant see next of kin.
                                    The papers are in the wrong order. You need to go back to the preceding pages (this is always worth checking).

                                    This chap was invalided out in 1918 which agrees with the medal card showing his award of the Silver War Badge. His address on discharge is given as Oaksey, Malmesbury, Wilts and his NOK as Miss Jaques Oaksey, Guardian (same address). I note he was exceptionally tall for the time - over 5ft 11ins! He was aged 19 years 11 months at the date of attestation which was 28 Oct 1915 .....

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                                    • #20
                                      Nell

                                      I've sent you a PM
                                      WendyP

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