Where's (Sarah) Jane in 1841 & 1851?

[Velma Dinkley]

In Mar qtr 1868 Jane Messenger married Charles Henry Coombes, Kensington district 1a 5. These are my cousin's great x2 grandparents on her father's side.

On the 1871 census she's calling herself Sarah J, 33 years old (birth c1838) and born Brompton Middx.

By 1881 and now widowed, she's now calling herself S Jane, aged 40 (birth c1841), born London Middlesex.

She died in Mar qtr 1890, Chelsea district 1a 329, aged 50 (birth c1840), recorded as Jane Sarah Coombes.

BTW I think I've found her on the 1861 census called Jane, living in Brompton, described as a 26 year old dressmaker and born Kensington Middx(birth c1835).

Now, I can't find her birth, baptism, and her whereabouts on the 1841 and 1851 census returns. I do know that her father's name was John Messenger from her marriage certificate.

I was wondering if one of you super sleuths would be able to help me please

Thank you for your help

[Oscar]

Velma

There is a Sarah Messenger in the Edmonton Union Workhouse in the 1841 Piece 653 Folio 10 Page 2 but her date of birth is 1833. No mention of parents though.

Not sure if this is any good.

Gwyn

[Oscar]

The more I look at it, the less convinced I am - sorry!

Gwyn

[KiteRunner]

There is a Sarah Jane Messenger baptism on the IGI at St Luke's Chelsea, with parents John and Mary - birth date is a bit out though being 23 Sep 1827 (baptism date 10 Aug 1828).

[KiteRunner]

How about this one in 1851?

7 Chapel Place, Kensington
Michael Messenger Head Mar 32 Coachman ????
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 33 Middx Chelsea
Thomas Do Son 5 Do Do
----------
Sarah Messenger Head U 22 Milliner Do Kensington

Again, she is a bit older than your Sarah / Jane says she is. Maybe the same one as that Chelsea baptism?

[Velma Dinkley]

Sorry for the delay, I've been cooking dinner :o

Thanks Gwyn, that Edmonton one is a possible, but looking at the map it is a long way from Brompton/Kensington. There's no other Messengers at the workhouse, so she must be an orphan, how sad.

Even though she is more or less consistant with her place of birth, she's not so with her age. Perhaps the 1828 baptism is an older sister who died, thanks for that Kate.

Perhaps, though she was older than she really was - I'll post a photo up later......

[Velma Dinkley]

Thanks Kate. That could be the same one as the baptism. Perhaps Michael is her uncle?

[KiteRunner]

Perhaps, though she was older than she really was ..

*brain tries to handle concept - fails*

[Velma Dinkley]

Oops, I meant older than she said :o

Lesson for the day, don't try to do research whilst eating your dinner :o :D ;)

[Velma Dinkley]

Here she is -



I don't know when it was taken, but I'm sure she must be over 50.

So I'm beginning to suspect that you might be right Kate......

[Kim]

\These are in Durham 1841 none born in county and Jane the right age Refs/ Class/HO107/ Piece 298/ Book/ 1/ Folio: 16/ Page: 26/ Line: 19

father is factory labourer John

Jane Messenger age 6 b1835 female,parish Jarrow

Household Members: Name Age Ann Messenger 2 Benjamin Messenger 4 Elizabeth Messenger 30 Jane Messenger 6 John Messenger 40

[Velma Dinkley]

Thank you for that Kim, it is a possible isn't it? That's the trouble with the 1841 census, it's so vague when it comes to place of birth.

Is the occupation factory labourer?

I've been thinking that it is a long way to go from London to find work. Although I have a London born hat finsher who moved to Manchester for several years in the 1840's, and a carpenter/railway wagon builder who moved up from Brighton to Normanton in Yorkshire, an important railway terminus at the time, in the 1870s. However these are people in specific trades, would a labourer move that far for work???

Thanks for your help though

[KiteRunner]

In 1851 the parents of that Durham family are both born in Cumberland and all the children are born in Durham, so I don't think that is the right family (father is a Baker & Grocer in 1851).

[Velma Dinkley]

Thanks Kate, I hadn't got to look that far :o

[Velma Dinkley]

I've just found a website about the photographer

Miss Ann Taylor  +  A&G Taylor

Luckily my cousin provided me with a copy of the photgraphers card and I've been able to work out that it was taken after 1886, and being that she was said to be 50 when she died, I won't say that she is between 46-50 in the photo, more like late 50s, early 60's. So the 1828 baptism is looking the more likely at the moment.

Thank you for your help everyone

[Velma Dinkley]

Gwyn

I'm also beginning to think that the Sarah you found in 1841 is indeed the lady I'm looking for. The workhouse comes under Enfield Middx, which is the same county as she was born and it does say 'Y' in 'born in county?' column.

Perhaps then this is the reason why she was so vague about her age - perhaps she was orphaned at a young age and no-one actually knew how old she was.

[Velma Dinkley]

Ah! Just found the Edmonton Sarah working as a servant in Edmonton in 1851, and I do think that Kate has found her in Kensington in 1851. Oh well.

So, I still can't find her in 1841. Perhaps Michael was an older brother - but I can't find him in 1841 either!!

My cousin hasn't told me yet the age she gave on her 1868 marriage certificate, so it wil be interesting to see what that says!!

Many thanks again.

[Oscar]

I got quite excited when I read your last but one post Velma - only to feel disappointed for you when I came to the last one - what a tangle eh!

I do hope you find her.

Gwyn

[Velma Dinkley]

Thanks Gwyn