Benjamin Jones, 36, carpenter, b Penboyr Carmarthenshire
Mary Ann Jones, 32, b Llanwinio Carmarthenshire
David Thomas Jones, 2, b Neath Glamorgan
John D Jones, 4 months, b Neath Glamorgan
Birth certificate:
Born 27th December 1878, Florence Street, Neath; registered 9th January 1879
David Thomas, boy, father Benjamin Jones (carpenter), mother Mary Ann Jones formerly Jones. Informant B Jones, father, Florence Street, Neath.
Marriage certificate:
Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of Neath in the County of Glamorgan, January 19th 1878
Benjamin Jones, 33, bachelor, carpenter, of Greenway Terrace, Neath; father Thomas Jones, carpenter.
Mary Ann Jones, 29, spinster, [can't read the address]; father David Jones, carpenter.
Witnesses Benjamin Powell (no idea who he was) and Mary Jones (I'm pretty sure Benjamin had no relation called Mary, so my hunch is that she might be Mary Ann's mother - I've got nothing to prove this though)
I've traced Benjamin all the way back to 1841, but have thus far failed to track down Mary Ann before their marriage. There's a Mary Ann Jones in Carmarthenshire in 1861 (RG9/4134, folio 6, page 6) with a father named David whose occupation was sawyer, which might be the same as the carpenter on the marriage cert - but Mary Ann is given as 10 in 1861 which doesn't tally with either the 29 at marriage or the 32 in 1881, in addition to which her birthplace is Llangunnor, which is miles away from Llanwinio - I've known people give different birthplaces on different censuses, but they're usually at least fairly close together; so, all that considered, I think that's unlikely to be mine. Anyone with better eyes than mine please?
The writing on the 1881 is very hard to read but her birthplace does look like Llanwinio and she is 32.
In 1891 she is 40 and the birthplace does begin with Llanw but not sure what the end is - it looks as though it has a y at the end.
In 1901 she is 53 and her birthplace looks something like Llanlloni, which doesn't seem to exist.
So Llanwinio does look like the best bet for where she was born, but maybe it's somewhere else with a similar name. At least it does say Carmarthen on all of them.
Ancestry isn't letting me use "Llan*" as a search item on the 1871 or 1861, which doesn't help. Grr!
I think Mary Ann's address is Oak something, which sounds more like a street name than a town. Can't find anywhere in Neath that fits though. I've tried searching Llanwinio in 1851 and 1861, no luck there.
The address given for Mary Ann on the marriage certificate is Oakleigh. It is mentioned in "description of enumeration district 12" for Neath on the 1881 census though I suppose if we find any Joneses living there in 1881 it doesn't mean they are related. I'll see what I can find anyway.
KiteRunner
Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh" (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")
Okay, I've found Oakleigh in 1881 but it looks like a pretty wealthy family living there - Head Surveyor to the Glamorgan County Road Board Fred H(?) Phillips age 32 and his wife Grace if you want to look - I would guess that Mary Ann was a servant when she was living there.
KiteRunner
Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh" (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")
Here's another one, on which I think I have some leads but I'm not entirely certain that they're the right ones - would appreciate your opinions. You'll be pleased to know this one does not involve any Joneses.
William Hughes, head, 23, furnace filler, b Cardiganshire
Anne Hughes, wife, 23, b Breconshire
Thomas Hughes, son, 1 month, b Ystradgynlais Breconshire
David Lewis, "father" [actually father-in-law], widower, 73, b Glamorganshire
William Gallop, boarder, 40, b Devon
Elenor Rees, servant, 18, b Ystradgynlais Breconshire (surprised me a bit that the family had a servant, they weren't exactly posh!)
Birth certificate
Born 13th March 1881, Cwmgiedd, Ystradgynlais, Brecon; registered 2nd May 1881.
Thomas, boy, father William Hughes (coal miner), mother Ann [different spelling to census] Hughes formerly Lewis. Informant Ann Hughes, mother, of Cwmgiedd, Ystradgynlais.
Marriage certificate
Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the parish of Ystradgynlais in the County of Brecknock, December 15th 1878
William Hughes, 21, bachelor, collier, [can't read the address again, although it gives the name of a town which clearly isn't Ystradgynlais - Aber something I think - another one to scan]. Father Thomas Hughes, mason.
Ann [again, no e] Lewis, 21, spinster, of Cwmgiedd. Father David Lewis, collier.
Witnesses Thomas Morris and Thomas Williams, so no help there.
That's all I'm certain of. The following are ones that might be mine:
1871, Palleg, Ystradgynlais, RG10/5434, folio 47 page 18 - David Lewis, widower, 59, coal miner, b Bettws Carmarthenshire. Apart from the age being a few years out that fits with the information from 1881 and the occupation given on the marriage cert - but the children living with him are Mary (20) and Hannah (10); no sign of Ann(e). There's an Ann Lewis aged 11, b Breconshire, living in Llandebr, Breconshire (RG10/5590, folio 56 page 5) - but she's listed as the granddaughter in a household with Hector McAlister (27), Maria McAlister (25), Morgan Walters (72) and Ann Walters (45). I suppose it's possible that Ann was Morgan Walters's grandchild from a previous marriage (doesn't seem likely that she was Ann Walters's grandchild, given an age difference of only 34 years) but this seems a bit of a long shot. The only other Ann Lewis I can find of roughly the right age and born in Breconshire is 15 and a servant to a family in Birthdir, Gelligaer (RG10/5387, folio 51 page 14).
1861, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil, RG9/4056, folio 40 page 34 - David Lewis, iron miner, again b Bettws Carmarthenshire - so that's almost certainly the same person as the 1871 entry - and this time his age is given as 53, which does correspond with the 73 in 1881. Lots of children but still no sign of Ann(e) though.
Thanks for the Oakleigh info, servant is probably right - there's no occupation on the marriage cert but that doesn't necessarily mean she didn't have one.
Michael, sorry I haven't got going on this Hughes one but it is another one that is going to need a solid block of time to be spent on it, not a few minutes here and there, but it will definitely get some time spent on it in the next few days...
KiteRunner
Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh" (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")
No problem, I appreciate that you have other things to do - I'm not expecting anyone to be on here 24/7 to tackle my brick walls!
I was meaning to post some more info on the Hughes - Lewis one but realised I'd lost track of time and had to disappear fairly quickly. Here's the marriage cert, again with an address I can't read:
In 1891 William and Ann are living in Ystradgynlais (RG12/4467, folio 27, page 24) with three children. Ann gives her birthplace as Cwmgiedd (which is an area of Ystradgynlais), William as Aberayon, Cardiganshire.
1901, still in Ystradgynlais (RG13/5063, folio 51, page 22), with the youngest two children (Thomas, the oldest, was married by then). Ann's birthplace is Ystradgynlais, William's Llanarth, Cardiganshire. Llanarth definitely exists (now in Dyfed) and it's close to Aberaeron, which I would assume is the same place as Aberayon - so my guess is that he was actually born in Llanarth and in 1891 gave Aberayon as the nearest largish town.
In 1871 there's a William Hughes, aged 14, in Ystradgynlais (RG10/5434, folio 93, page 24), born in Llanarth, Cardiganshire, which looks like him - no sign of his father though (David Hughes, the head of the household, is given as William's brother) so I can't check that against the marriage cert. Eleanor Hughes, David's mother, is down as married, so I assume that her husband is still around somewhere, just not with the rest of the family for some reason. Incidentally, if the information on that page is to be believed Eleanor would have had a child at 56 - seems more likely that William's unmarried "sister" Elizabeth (26 years older than him) is in fact his mother.
In 1861 the only possible match I can find is a William Hughes aged 2 in Yspytty Ystwyth, Cardiganshire (RG9/4021, folio 77, page 4), whose father is Thomas, but a carpenter - this seems like a long shot.
Last edited by Michael; 02-02-08, 15:22.
Reason: More info added
Michael, one good thing about your ancestors is that if they were going to live in a place that was hard to read, at least they made sure it was in the first enumeration district I looked at! That Aber place on the marriage cert is Abercrave, spelt Abercraf on my map, and it is in enumeration district 7 of Upper Ystradgynlais on the 1881 census, just looking through for an Alicia House or similar now...
KiteRunner
Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh" (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")
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