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  • Fact and myth

    My ancestor Elizabeth Winfield came from Ewelme in Oxfordshire. The Winfields (who were also known as Wincott and Wingate in the C18th and early C19th) were a large well respected family of agricultural labourers in the village and quite well documented. One rather romantic account has them as the descendants of servants of a de la Pole Duke of Suffolk who brought them down from Wingfield in Suffolk when he married Alice Chaucer, Chaucer's grand-daughter and heiress of Ewelme. It also says that they were Roman Catholics and that one descendant (born 1866) could remember the family forsaking the old religion. I've never given any of this much credence.

    My Elizabeth's parents were William Winfield (married as Wincott and born c 1758) and Elizabeth Morris (baptised 1759) who married in the neighbouring parish of Swyncombe in 1781. But I have been looking at a marriage on the IGI between a William Wincott and an Elizabeth Morrice in 1775 at Bri(gh)twell Prior Roman Catholic Church which is very near Ewelme. The IGI also has baptisms for John and James Wingate in 1783 and 1785. There are no parents names but the christian names and dates coincide with the elder sons (that I know of) of William and Elizabeth.

    I know a couple would have to marry in a CofE church in this period but how likely is it that a couple would marry in a RC church in 1775 and in a CofE church in 1781? There just *seem* to be several coincidences
    Last edited by Asa; 29-01-08, 13:12.
    Asa

  • #2
    Erm.............I'm confused by what you say here:

    Originally posted by Asa View Post
    I know a couple would have to marry in a CofE church in this period but how likely is it that a couple would marry in a RC church in 1775 and in a CofE church in 1781? There just *seem* to be several coincidences
    I thought from 1754 (Hardwick's Marriage Act) until 1837, marriage outside of the C of E was illegal, except for Jews and Quakers???

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    • #3
      Sorry Merry, that didn't make much sense. RC marriages took place in the period but weren't legally recognised so to be legal in the 1770s/80s, a marriag would have to take place or be duplicated in a CofE church. It's the 6 years in between that is causing me doubts.

      Sorry got to go offline for a bit
      Asa

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      • #4
        That IGI entry actually gives his name as Wm Wingate, not Wincott, if anybody else is having trouble finding it. It's a submitted entry and it doesn't give an exact date, just the year, so I wouldn't give it much credence if I were you.
        KiteRunner

        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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        • #5
          Having looked more closely at the batch, most of the marriages look to have actual dates, and they are from all different places, many say RC, so there could be something in it after all. There is also a marriage listed between Catharine Wingate and Richard Church on the 1st Nov 1775 at the same place, and 24 Jan 1771 Sara Wingate and William Low. Do any of those fit in with your William?
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry KR - I was getting confused with my Winthings. The 1775 marriage is Wingate and the 1781 marriage Wincot.

            I've never found a baptism for William - if he was baptised as an RC, that would explain it - so I have no other family for him going backwards, although his and Elizabeth's second daughter was Sarah and their third daughter was Catherine.

            I've just realised that the eldest son that I know of, John Winfield appears on the census as being born at Britwell.
            Asa

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            • #7
              Asa

              I wouldn't worry too much about the six year gap between a RC marriage and one in the C of E. That seemed to happen quite a lot in my RC branch.

              I can only surmise that the C of E marriage was a reluctant one, forced by circumstances at the time - a need for parish relief perhaps, or a need to appear to have forsworn the RC faith - in order to get a job, perhaps. Many employers would not employ overtly Roman Catholics.

              OC

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              • #8
                OC

                Thank you - I've no experience of RCs at this time so it's good to hear from someone who has. It certainly fits in with the article about the family and the other coincidences.
                Asa

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                • #9
                  Mine were very fortunate to live in an area of Lancashire where it was tolerated. Especially for my family, as they had originally owned the land on which Stonyhurst College was built.

                  Most of their land was seized by Cromwell, but they managed somehow to hold onto a farmstead and they were not subject to the usual pressures to give up their faith in exchange for local favours.

                  One or two of them kept a foot in both camps - not sure why, really, but this is a family that went slowly and steadily downhill from the late 1600s and was living in abject poverty by 1901.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    I suppose a lot depended on the religion of the landowners as well. I have a couple, both baptised and married CofE in the early C19th who had most of their brood of children baptised in various CofE churches. But they then appear in the RC records of Stonor in Oxfordshire having their last two baptised there. None of the children seem to have followed the religion and their seem to be a lot of other local surnames there of conformist families. The Lords Stonor are RC so I can only assume that when the father was working on Lord Stonor's land they were induced or it was easier to become RC.
                    Asa

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