State Pension

[Muggins in Sussex]

How is it possible for someone who does not have a birth certificate to claim the State Pension? ( if, indeed, it is possible)

Thanks

[Elaine ..Spain]

Do you have to present a birth certificate in order to claim a State pension.
Do they not take your details from the National Insurance data?

[Pippa Doll]

Until Joan tells us which decade we are talking about I don't think we are able to help that much?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Sorry, I am talking about the 1980's

[Pippa Doll]

In those times all National Insurance information was kept on cards in Long Benton I believe as the computer systems that hold that information were not used until 1988. I would imagine it was a case of you told them you were born in x year and provided proof of who you were and I think they just believed you not like these days.

[Olde Crone Holden]

If you have no birth cert when you reach pensionable age, they will ask you to swear an affidavit that you are who you say you are, possibly backed by witnesses, and they will then check back to see when your National Insurance contributions started, to see if your working life tallies with your age.

After all, if you have paid into the system for many years then you are entitled to draw from it.

OC

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thank you, Pippa

Although I do have a copy of a cert isued in 1945 which says at the top

" Certified Copy of an Entry of Birth supplied at the Special fee of 1/- applicable in certain Statutory Cases. This Certificate is isssued for the Purposes of Widows, Orphans and Old age Contributory Pensions Act"

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks OC - so it is possible then

[Little Nell]

I suppose you could also show payslips with your NI deductions on it, or find a baptism.

There must have been a way to do this, as my husband's gt grandfather had a pension, although when he applied for his birth cert it wasn't found. I have since discoved that this is because although he was called Charles Carter his birth was registered as Charles Albert McCarthy. It's odd he didn't remember this though, as he had older siblings who retained the McCarthy name and were living near him in his early adulthood.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Proof of war service was also used to calculate your age roughly.

Nell

In the case of your husband's gf not finding his birth cert, I do wonder how efficient the GRO are/were in cases like this. Maybe they asked him his surname, he said Carter but didn't explain it might also have been McCarthy and the GRO didn't look further than the end of their nose.

You must all surely remember "Brian's Story" on GR - the poor chap who had never had a birth cert cos the GRO couldn't find one. The GRO did NOT offer him the information or suggestion that he may not have been born in England. In fact he was born and registered in the IOM.

OC

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks, Nell - that's very helpful, as my closest living relative claims the State Pension, and does not have a birth certificate showing the name under which he claims - hope that makes sense!

[Pippa Doll]

As far as records are concerned from the the government you can have a requested name on file as well as your real one or just have it changed.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Proof of war service was also used to calculate your age roughly.

Nell

In the case of your husband's gf not finding his birth cert, I do wonder how efficient the GRO are/were in cases like this. Maybe they asked him his surname, he said Carter but didn't explain it might also have been McCarthy and the GRO didn't look further than the end of their nose.

You must all surely remember "Brian's Story" on GR - the poor chap who had never had a birth cert cos the GRO couldn't find one. The GRO did NOT offer him the information or suggestion that he may not have been born in England. In fact he was born and registered in the IOM.

OC

Thanks again OC

This person would not have proof of war service as he was registered as a conscientious objector. I doubt that would suffice (?)

[Little Nell]

OC

I believe Charles didn't know he was a McCarthy to start with - it was a shock to surviving family members when it was discovered. Charles is known as Carter from 1871 census, so he probably never thought he'd been registered as anything else. But why Dennis also turned into James I just don't know!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Muggins

But there would be proof somewhere that he registered as a conscientious objector.This means he was called for war service, and would prove that a) He had a birth cert and b) he was at least 17 when called up.

I believe all co's had to attend a hearing in the Magistrate's Court in order to be registered.

I have no idea if there was a central registration, or if such records survive - probably at TNA if so.

Also, cos were required to do noncombatant work during the war, or go to prison.

OC

[Muggins in Sussex]

OC,

Yes, he was ordered to do work as prescribed by the Ministry, but ran away to Jersey, where he lived in hiding during the Nazi occupation.

[Olde Crone Holden]

OK, now I am not sure of this next bit, but I THINK your reply means he must have had a birth certificate, because how else would the government have known to issue call up papers?

Does anyone know how conscription was done - I mean, what records did they use to decide who was old enough to be called up? If it was birth certs, then he must have been registered, in a name that he was still using when he was called up.

OC

[Pippa Doll]

I know this sounds like I'm being argumentative but in an age before computers how would they cross reference birth certificates with death certificates taking into account that people could have moved anywhere to call them up?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Blinky flip, OC - I never thought of that!

The only reason I know he was a CO is that I recently found reports of the tribunal hearing on The Guardian on line site .........in the name that there is no cert for!!!!

Head now spinning!!!!!!

Cheers

[Pippa Doll]

This is interesting: The Military Service Act 1916 - conscription into the British army in WW1