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Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills Index question

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  • Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills Index question

    I'm just working through searching British Origins for all my likely names before my 72-hr sub expires, and I've found an entry for a Francis Freemantle in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills Index 1717-1845 (or maybe 1750-1800 depending which screen you look at). The date given is July 1784, and it says "Foreign Parts" for the place (of residence). It would cost me £10 for a copy from there, and I'm not 100% certain that it means a copy of the actual will rather than of the calendar entry! (In the information for that dataset, it says "Order hard copies of licence allegations by clicking the Add to cart button..." which probably means they copied that bit from the info about marriage licence allegations and forgot to change the words, which doesn't help.)

    I thought that TNA Documents Online had all the PCC wills but I can't find any matches for Francis Freemantle. Looking for just Francis in July 1784 comes up with 3 matches which don't look anything like Freemantle, and looking for just Freemantle in that month comes up with nothing. Leaving the name out and using "foreign" as a keyword or a place name finds nothing. Leaving the name out and just specifying July 1784 comes up with about 600 results - is there nothing I can do except plough through them all looking for one that looks a bit like Francis Freemantle (or cough up the £10, which I would have to do quickly before my 72 hrs is up)? Normally I would check on the Index to Death Duty Registers on findmypast, but that only starts in 1796.

    I have no reason to think that my Francis Freemantle would have been in foreign parts anyway, so I would be loath to spend £10 on a red herring. But I would spend £3.50 or a few findmypast credits on one!

    Any ideas?
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

  • #2
    What ref does it give? I'm off to the FRC tomorrow, so could look on the microfilm.

    Are you sure it is a will, not an admon? Those definitely aren't on Documents Online.

    I think the info comes from the SOG's index, so I ought to be able to check that as well, if they haven't chucked them out.
    Phoenix - with charred feathers
    Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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    • #3
      On second thoughts, it may be a mistranscription:

      What about this:

      Francis Frernoult,
      Gentleman
      of Canterbury
      04 May 1786
      PROB 11/1142
      Phoenix - with charred feathers
      Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think, by the way, that transcribers used pts or Foreign Parts TO COVER ALL INSTANCES OF THOSE WHO DIED ABROAD, whereas Documents Online will say where someone was living when they made the will.
        Phoenix - with charred feathers
        Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

        Comment


        • #5
          It doesn't give any reference, annoyingly enough, Phoenix. All it says is Francis Freemantle, foreign parts, July 1784. But if it does include admons as well as wills, it doesn't say so in the info about the dataset. Still, as I said, there are a few obvious errors in the info so I wouldn't be surprised! If you could look it up for me, please, it would be very kind and helpful of you indeed and I would be very grateful. If it turns out to be an admon then I will definitely know not to spend £10 on it!

          Yes, the info seems to suggest it comes from the S o G index.

          Thanks.
          KiteRunner

          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
            On second thoughts, it may be a mistranscription:

            What about this:

            Francis Frernoult,
            Gentleman
            of Canterbury
            04 May 1786
            PROB 11/1142
            It would mean they got the surname, place, month and year wrong, wouldn't it? I would have thought it would be almost impossible to get the month and year wrong because the list they transcribed it from must at least be organised by year, mustn't it?

            But I can't see Francis Frernoult on British Origins, so I suppose it's possible!
            KiteRunner

            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

            Comment


            • #7
              Er, the year is my error!

              But I'll have a look at both. I can't remember offhand, but I thought that only admons were listed by month.
              Phoenix - with charred feathers
              Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks, Phoenix.
                KiteRunner

                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ooh Kite Runner, I so hope that your ancestors were in Southwark. In places like Great Bandy Leg Walk.
                  The reason that the info re Francis Freemantle isn't listed on Documents Online, although his name is in the margin, is that it isn't strictly a will. It starts off as a letter to his brother, rather than "In the name of God Amen" though that isn't an excuse.

                  I couldn't remember how to look up wills on microfilm. but luckily a friend was on the desk, to convert the reference to a microfilm number. She too, looked to see if there was a mistranscription, but couldn't find one.

                  If Francis is a rellie, coughing up £10 would have been well worth it, but you can actually download it from Documents Online, by choosing John Dixon in 1784 - ie the previous will.

                  I didn't read the entire document, as it ran to several pages, but I think it boils down to Francis' brothers William & Thomas trying to obtain Francis' backpay from the navy. The letter is an account of his travels and there is a mass of biographical detail.

                  They were living in Southwark, in the Tooley Street area, so far as I can make out, and William's family seems to be on the IGI.

                  This is definitely the sort of family you would like to be related to!
                  Phoenix - with charred feathers
                  Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh, that's brilliant, thank you! Yes, my Francis Freemantle did live in Southwark (though this could of course turn out to be a relative, say, his father or uncle?) and one of my other Southwark rellies wrote a will that was a letter to his brother-in-law, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was one of mine. I'll try what you suggested later and let you know what I find out!
                    Thanks again.
                    KiteRunner

                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There isn't an icon for jealousy, is there?!

                      I talked to Audrey on the desk, and she has taken the details so that ultimately Documents Online will be amended to show Francis.

                      There were lots of wills in 1784 of men who had been on HMS Burford, so I reckon the ship must just have returned to port.

                      If you Google for it, another family historian had an ancestor on board, and they have put up a timeline, complete with events, which is fascinating.
                      Phoenix - with charred feathers
                      Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ooh, I'll have a look; thanks for that.
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Having downloaded "John Dixon's" will and read through Francis's, it doesn't look as if it could be "my" Francis because there is no mention of him having any children, and a couple of them would still have been alive at that date. But I should think he must be a relative - it's not that common a name, is it? And with him coming from Southwark, too. I shall have to do some more digging around to see if I can figure out what the connection could be. The letter is so interesting, with all the info about the battles he was involved in and everything. I do hope I manage to connect him to my family!

                          Thanks again, Phoenix.
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                          Comment

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