1841 and 1851 are they the same family ?

[colin taylor]

I have HO 107 581 16 Taylor for 1841 and HO 107 2235 125 Taylor for 1851..
Everything points to them being the same family except for James Taylor he is 15 in 1841 and 11 in 1851..
Samuel Taylor married Mary Gray 3 Oct 1841 so was probably a widower in 1841..
There are no other Samuel Taylors in Haughton in either 1841 or 1851 so it looks OK but I can not explain the two Samuels nor can I find the second Samuel as a 1 year old in 1841..
I have tried to obtain a birth cert but the local RO say that there are too many Samuel Taylors born in the area around that time for them to look at each one for a father named Samuel

[KiteRunner]

1851 Lancashire - Haughton - Brown Lane
Samuel Taylor Head Mar 51 Coal Miner Lancashire Denton(?)
Mary do Wife M 35 Ireland
Samuel do Son U 16 Coal Miner Lancashire Haughton
James do Son 11 do Waggoner Cheshire Hyde
Hannah do Daur 8 At home do do
Bridget do Daur 5 do Lancashire Denton
Mary do do 4 do do do
Elizabeth do do 2 do do

[KiteRunner]

Sorry, too many Taylors on that page in 1841!

Lancashire - Haughton - Lane ends
Samuel Taylor 35 Coal Miner Y
Richard Taylor 18 do Y
James do 15 do Y
George do 8 Y
Samuel do 5 Y
Alice Bromley 60 House keeper Y

[KiteRunner]

Okay, sorry but it's taken me so long to find them and type it up that I have to get off the computer now!

But the most likely explanation for James age 11 in 1851 is that he is Mary's son from a previous marriage or relationship. Notice he is born in Hyde, Cheshire, so if I were you I would look for him with Mary in Hyde on the 1841. The only thing that puzzles me is that his younger sister is also born Hyde but you say Samuel married Mary in 1841? Did they maybe live in Hyde for a while and then move back to Haughton, or could it be that the Samuel Taylor / Mary Gray marriage isn't the right one? Do you have the birth certificates of any of Samuel and Mary's children to check her maiden name?

[colin taylor]

Thank you KiteRunner,
I have the cerificate for Bridget Taylor, that being the only name that is not as common as the surname and her mothers maiden name was Gray.
Mary Grey aged 25 is on the 1841 census living at Throstle Bank in Hyde.
The Taylors lived in Hyde , Haughton and Denton and seemed to have chosen any as the place of birth but they are near each other.
No James Grey in 1841 census
This has 1841 has been puzzling me for a few years and it is only the James age 15 on the census that gives me any doubts

[KiteRunner]

If James age 11 in 1841 is not Mary's son from before she married Samuel, then perhaps his age is wrong on the 1851 and he was only nearly 10? He could have been born just after the 1841 census and been Samuel's son. If the older James had died in between then they could well have named another son James.