Another Goulson..Illegitimate and lied to sign up?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

I'm slightly confused by this chap

John Edgar Goulson, birth ref Cardiff, Q1, 1886.

He appears in the 1891 and 1901 census with parents(?) John Goulson and Mary Ann in Leicestershire.

John Goulson married Mary Ann Gilman in 1889 (Grantham district, which could also include part of Leicestershire). That is 3 years after the birth of John Edgar.

Looking at the ww1 pensions on ancestry under the name of Goulson shows a John Goulson born Cardiff but the name John Edgar Goulson is written across the top of the page and the name Thomas Brown is entered in the correct place on the document. His trade is listed as photographer.








He must be illegitimate (registered 1886, parents marriage in 1889) but why the different name?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Was he underage when he signed up?

I understand it was also quite common to sign up under a false name if some girl was pursuing you, or even worse, her dad with a shotgun.

OC

[Jessbowbag]

do you think perhaps its just scrawlled there?

There is a John Rodgers noted too , top right - ish

Do you think, somehow, front page and the other 4 dont match up - 2nd deffo says John Goulson

edited again - 4th page says its his alias, how wierd!

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

He enlisted in 1904, the age quoted looks to match the birth ref.

The place of birth and the photography reference match to the 1901 census image but what makes me curious is the surname "Brown" and also the fact he was registered as Goulson three years before the marriage.

Seems there has to be at least two sets of fibs somewhere along the line. There are no next of kin noted further through the document but his "parents" were certainly alive at the time.


I haven't downloaded it nut there is a medal card matching the regiment and service number on TNA;

Medal Card of John E Goulson , Royal Scots Fusiliers 8002 Private Royal Scots Fusiliers 8002 Private

[Olde Crone Holden]

As he has not entered any next of kin, it seems clear to me that he was using an alias in order to avoid SOMETHING catching up with him.

OC

[Little Nell]

But if he was using an alias when and why was his correct name added?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

There are two medal cards,

Medal Card of John E Goulson , Army Service Corps S355816 Private
Date range: 1914 - 1920

and the one i posted above.

From what i can tell both are for the same chap.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Nell

When the SOMETHING caught up with him? Maybe he was a runaway apprentice?

Or perhaps he wanted to marry and she knew his real name so he decided to come clean?

All sorts of reasons and quite often no reason at all - there is a story, don't know how true it is, that many of the young men who enlisted in the "Old contemptibles" used each other's names. Quite why is never explained!

OC

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

As he has not entered any next of kin, it seems clear to me that he was using an alias in order to avoid SOMETHING catching up with him.

OC

Wonder just what he had taken pictures of...........and i wonder if he or his father is responsible for the possible "fake" pic of grt granny too?????

[Night Owl]

The image 11375 says at the top "Alias John Edgar Goulson"

I think he enlisted in 1904 as Thomas Brown and was made a reserve in 1911. He then re-enlisted on 5th August 1914 (the day after Britain declared war on Germany)

I wonder whether his first period of service was as Thomas Brown and he served in the war as John Edgar Goulson.

A lot of guessing on my part

Jackie

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

The document says he was wounded three times in action, wonder if his true identity slipped out at the time?

He signed up in Leicester so a few miles away from home in 1901, presumably he was unknown to the staff when he enlisted. Would he have been able to keep up the deception throughout the war and claim monies due or would that have been nearly impossible?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

The image 11375 says at the top "Alias John Edgar Goulson"

I think he enlisted in 1904 as Thomas Brown and was made a reserve in 1911. He then re-enlisted on 5th August 1914 (the day after Britain declared war on Germany)

I wonder whether his first period of service was as Thomas Brown and he served in the war as John Edgar Goulson.

A lot of guessing on my part

Jackie

Well spotted, i completely missed the word alias.

[Olde Crone Holden]

If he wanted a half pay note for his wife or his mother during WW1, then he would have to give his correct name.

Perhaps by that time whatever had been pursuing him had been dealt with and he no longer needed to be Thomas Brown?

OC

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

I guess i will have to add a chapter to the book and leave this as a tantalising tease until i find a descendant or close family member.

It's one of those things that might jog a memory for someone at some time, i have had a couple of success stories with these little mystery teasers over the months :D:D

[Little Nell]

Possibly he had to reveal his real identity to claim money due to him? Or maybe the alias was innocent (though as both first and surname were different I think this unlikely). Anyway do let us know if you ever find out.

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Is it really 7 years since the last post on this thread? Found a little more about young John from a newspaper

Coalville Times
Friday September 11th 1914 (Issue 1175)




Page 8
COALVILLE SOLDIER IN THE BATTLE OF MONS
THRILLING EXPERIENCES
HOSPITALS BLOWN UP BY GERMANS
Looking and feeling very fit, and eager to return to the fray, Pte. J. E. Goulson, of the Royal Scots Fusiliers, and son of Mr J. Goulson, photographer, of Belvoir Road, Coalville, is this week-end returning to Ayr, where the depot of his regiment is located, after having been discharged as convalescent from the London Hospital, and staying for a few days with his parents.
In an interview with a representative of this paper, Pte. Goulson described how he was wounded in the battle of Mons and gave an interesting account of some exciting experiences which fell to him, and his comrades.
Pte. Goulson was with the first Expeditionary Force to France, which, unknown to the world until this voyage, had been safely accomplished, proceeded via Southampton and Havre. On arrival at the latter place they were in camp for two days and then proceeded to a point up country by train. Then followed a few days marching which brought them into the neighbourhood of Mons where the first clash of arms between the British and Germans took place. “As we marched through the villages,” said Mr Goulson, “we could tell things were getting serious by the pitiable condition of the women and children. All the men seemed to have gone to the war and those left behind appeared to be in great distress. It struck us then that we were not out for a joy day.”
Questioned as to how hostilities actually commenced, Pte. Goulson stated that on Saturday, August 22nd, they marched from Longville to Mons and then to Jemappes, where they took up a position in the afternoon and the same night a German aeroplane flew over the camp. They fired on this but failed to bring it down. Apparently it was in this manner that the British position was ascertained, for next morning, Sunday August 23, the Germans commenced their artillery fire. This was followed by the advance of the huge German army, and, said Mr Goulson, “they got to within 300 yards of us, with a canal between. We held them there until 4 o’clock in the afternoon, when after about six hours’ fighting we had to retire. In the last few hours their artillery fire was very effective and the maxims began to mow them down a bit. Our artillery at this time had not come up. But our loss was not great until we started to retire. Up to that point not more than half a dozen men in my company had been hit, but as we started to retire we lost about 50 in ten minutes. The Germans also lost heavily. They came on in such close formation that it was absolutely impossible to miss them. We were on the left flank which the German tried to turn and so had the brunt of the fighting.”
Asked whether the German soldiers were good marksmen, Pte. Goulson said their rifle shooting was very poor, but the maxims did a lot of damage. Continuing the narrative, he said the Germans followed them through the town to a place called Framries and then on to Bavay, and it was here that the subject of our interview received a bullet wound in the right arm which necessitated his going into hospital.
By further questions, the writer ascertained that Pte. Goulson had one or two hair-breath escapes in the course of the campaign. At Jamappes, for instance, half a dozen men were resting in a house when a shell came and shattered the building to atoms. Only two of the six, one of whom was Pte. Goulson, emerged from the building alive. On another occasion, he was one of the six men of his company who got cut off from their regiment and lost their way. They were away from the main body all night and at one village where they called, they were told that a large party of Uhlans has passed through only minutes before. Of the six men, four were wounded, the other two who were drivers had no rifles. Fortunately with the coming of daylight they were able to ascertain the whereabouts of their own troops and joined them. Yet another narrow escape was when Pte. Goulson and others had been carrying some wounded soldiers into the field hospital. They had only just quitted the hospital when it was blown to smithereens by the German shell fire.
“They seemed to aim at hospitals and churches,” added our informant. Pte. Goulson did not actually witness some of the more awful atrocities which the Germans are known to have committed, but he said that as they retired through the town of Jamappes most of the buildings were on fire and the Germans seemed to shoot everybody they came across. He saw thousands of refugees carrying all they could of their belongings and struggling to get away by the trains. Many of them were pitiable objects. The batch of wounded which included Pte. Goulson was brought to Rouen and travelled to London via Southampton.
The writer was pleased to hear that the Coalville soldier has now fully recovered from his injury and, as stated above, was ready and anxious to return to the scene of operations to strike another blow for his country and the righteous cause we are upholding. It may be added that it was not in the battle of Mons that Pte. Goulson received his baptism of fire. He had already been on active service in India, Burmah, and Africa.
On the declaration of war with Germany he was called up as a reservist.