The winner of WDWTYA? 17th January 2008 is......

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

vikki brace!!!!

Well done vikki.......

[Sue from Southend]

Congratulations Vikki, I hope you get a few holes knocked into your brick walls!!

[vikki brace]

Oh Wow - Thank you

Ok, I hope you are all ready for me.

I'll start with some hopefully easy ones.

1. James Coghlan - Born 1839 Corfu, found in 41, 51,61 but no sign of after that point. No near death matches.

1841 - with mum and dad and siblings. Romford, Essex (HO107; Piece 330; Book: 14 Folio: 23; Page: 41)

1851 - with mum and some siblings. Bethnal Green (HO107; Piece: 1539; Folio: 452; Page: 37)

1861 - With mum. Bethnal Green (RG9; Piece: 253; Folio: 35; Page: 26)
Recorded as Insane

Any lead on James would be great

[vikki brace]

2. My main nightmare is with the white family.

What I have so far.

Charles Walter White (Basket Maker) married Mary Ann Catherine Nuckley 30 March 1874, Bethnal Green (Cert). Grooms father George Samuel White Labourer

Elizabeth White b.c1875 Southwark (Census)
Sarah Ann White b.c1877 Southwark (Census)
Sophia Agnes White b.11 Jan 1879 8 Stanage Court, Southwark (Cert)
James White b.c1880 Bermondsey (Census)

1881 at 27 Westcote Street, Southwark - Charles DOB 1852, Southwark
1891 at 27 Westcote Street, Southwark - Charles DOB 1831, Lambeth
1901 at 3 Glim Street, Bermondsey - Charles DOB 1842, Homerton, Middlesex

on 1881 census it shows 4 other children, they don't appear again with Charles
Robert White b.c1862 Southwark
Mary Ann White b.c1864 Southwark
Edward White b.c1866 Southwark
Charles White b.c1870 Southwark.

Now I cannot find Charles Walter White prior to his marriage in 1874. I have looked for the 4 children born before his marriage but cannot find them either.
Also Mary Ann Catherine Nuckly is missing in 1861.

[Elizabeth Herts]

Well done, Vikki!

I knew someone was researching Whites of Southwark - I came across some just a couple of days ago. I'll go off and look where it was! (Poor memory :o)

[KiteRunner]

Vikki, still working on no. 1 (James Coghlan), to save us going over stuff you have already done, have you already found all James's sisters on the other censuses and established that he isn't with any of them?

[vikki brace]

Hi Kite

I think I have eliminated most of them.

Amelia died in 1855 Bethnal Green
Francis accounted for through all the census (I know its a brother)
Mary is missing after 51
Lydia married George Bruton in 1857 Bethnal Green and died in 1860
Harriet married John William Lucas in 1853 Bethnal Green and died in 1859

[KiteRunner]

And another question about the Coghlans - do you have anything other than the 1851 census entry that gives the same birthplaces for them? In 1841, Francis senior is born Ireland, Elizabeth says No in county and also says Ireland, the children all just say "no" to county rather than "foreign parts". In 1851 Elizabeth is born Derby and so is Amelia, then Francis jr is born Portugal, Mary born Corfu, Harriet born St Mora, James born Veidomar Corfu. In 1861 I think it says N K for Betsey (Elizabeth) and nothing for James. If he was born Corfu then hopefully it might say so on another census, but I wonder whether the birthplaces in 1851 are right? If the rest of them stick with those birthplaces on the other censuses then I would be inclined to believe them!

[KiteRunner]

Given the connection with Romford (they were there in 1841), there is a possible death Jun 1866 James Caghlan Romford 4a 65 (not checked page number is right). The trouble is, there are so many people with a similar name, and whoever registered his death may not have had much info about him, so it could be hard to find the right one. There are a couple of possible James Cocklin deaths in different London districts before age was added to the deaths index, too.

[KiteRunner]

Mary is missing after 51

She has a middle initial of E on the 1851 - I don't suppose you know what it stood for, do you? Could be Elizabeth after her mother, in which case there is a Mary Elizabeth Coghlan death Sep 1862 Bermondsey which could be her. Again, there are so many Coghlans, though!

[vikki brace]

Only the GRO regimental birth records (although these don't give dates, and I can't afford all the certs at the moment)

GRO REGIMENTAL BIRTH INDICES

Harriet - Santa Maura 2-57
James - Vido 2-53 (James - Corfu 11-137)

there are also another 2 births, but I haven't found them on the uk census at all

Jesse C E - Corfu 2-29 (Jesse C E - Corfu 11-130)
Richard H - Santa Maura 2-65 (Richard H - Santa Maura 11-159)

I found Elizabeth again in 1871 at same address as in 61 and it lists her birth place as Derbyshire
Francis (jr) shows Portugal in51,61 and 1901 but then lists Shoreditch for the others

I am waiting for a reply from TNA about a chelsea Pension record for a Francis Coghlan (1830-1840 ish). I am hoping it is Francis Sr and will help me find out why all these children were born overseas.

[vikki brace]

I supose its possible for James to have been in Essex again, especially if he was insane as suggested in 1861, maybe he was in an institution there and died.

I will make a note of that,

[KiteRunner]

Oooh, exciting!

(Um, I meant all those foreign births, not dying in an institution, we posted at the same time!)

[vikki brace]

I did see that one, but i'm not sure as its so far from Bethnal green, if I could find her in 61 it might help narrow it down

I know what you mean about the name as well, there are loads plus the mistranscriptions

[vikki brace]

Oooh, exciting!

(Um, I meant all those foreign births, not dying in an institution, we posted at the same time!)

:D, yes it does get interesting

[Elizabeth Herts]

The site I saw I have dismissed. :(

Have you a year of birth for Charles White?

[KiteRunner]

2.Charles Walter White (Basket Maker) married Mary Ann Catherine Nuckley 30 March 1874, Bethnal Green (Cert). Grooms father George Samuel White Labourer


Now I cannot find Charles Walter White prior to his marriage in 1874. I have looked for the 4 children born before his marriage but cannot find them either.
Also Mary Ann Catherine Nuckly is missing in 1861.

Vikki, could you post up the full details from the marriage cert, please? And details of where Mary Ann is in 1871 if you have her on that one?

[vikki brace]

The site I saw I have dismissed. :(

Have you a year of birth for Charles White?

Thats the problem, not sure. Census show 3 different years and marriage cert does my favourite - Full age

[Elizabeth Herts]

Oh dear! And with the surname White it is a problem!

I have a long line of Whites, so I know only too well!

How about the father - George Samuel White? Have you found him? Perhaps if we find him we can find Charles.

Do you have an age for George?

[vikki brace]

Here is the marriage cert, the writing isn't that clear on my copy either