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A chemist in 1845

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  • A chemist in 1845

    I received my 3greats grandfather's marriage cert the other day and his occupation is Chemist. I thought that was great and that he must have been educated even though his father was a labourer. However when I looked at the signatures he signed with an X.

    Does that mean I was wrong in my thinking he had some education or that his job was a good one?

    Also I thought I had found his fathers death in some PR's several years before the son's marriage. The cert doesn't say deceased so does that mean the father was alive and I had the wrong death? Or could it have been missed off?
    Kit

  • #2
    I also have a chemist ancestor.
    In an earlier census he is apprenticed to another chemist, so I would guess that the job could (or was) learnt by watching and learning from another chemist. I don't know anything about 19th century pharmacy, but presumably most of it was practical work and (provided no-one swapped bottles around unnecessarily!) it could be done even if you were unable to read and write.

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    • #3
      OH's grandfather was a pharmaceutical chemist all his working life. He was born in 1872 in Whitby and his mother paid £20 for him to be apprenticed to a chemist there when he was in his teens. He had to be trained on the job for at least 5 years. He is a chemist on the 1901 census.

      I would have thought it was usual for chemists to be literate - surely they have to be able to write dosages and read instructions etc. And I think for a pharmaceutical chemist there must have been qualifications to gain.

      Perhaps because of the earlier date (1845) things were slightly different. BUt think how dangerous it could be if a chemist couldn't read or write.
      Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 06-01-08, 15:51.
      Elizabeth
      Research Interests:
      England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
      Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

      Comment


      • #4
        That's true Elizabeth.
        My chemist was in 1891.
        Maybe Kit's chemist was an assistant or working in a shop where he had to be able to recognise bottles or substances rather than dispense dosages etc.

        Comment


        • #5
          There are quite a lot of symbols used in pharmacy? You could learn to recognise those, without, necessarily, learning to write.

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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          • #6
            I think some people have found their ancestors signing with a X even when they could write. I think it maybe seemed the norm for some people then?

            What I'm trying to say is just because you have an X signature doesn't mean he couldn't write.

            Anne

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            • #7
              He may have just put X because he was in a hurry! I have instances of folk who sign sometimes and other times put a cross.

              As to father being recorded as deceased or not - as with any other record what is recorded may or may not be correct - though my experience is that dead fathers are recorded as dead and living ones aren't.
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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              • #8
                A chemist isnt necessarily someone working in a shop giving out medicines. A chemist could be someone who has studied chemistry, doing experiments etc. which I would have thought the person would have to be literate.

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                • #9
                  It has also been suggested that, if you were instructed by the Registrar to "put your X there" you might not enter into a discussion about the relative merits of an actual signature.

                  Likewise, if asked for your father's name, you might not mention that he was already dead, and the Registrar might not have asked.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tom
                    Maybe they made out his job to be more than it was and he was just an assistant for a chemist, or someone who did what he was told to do, or served in the front of house.

                    Of course!
                    There seem to be a lot of marrying "farmers" (or their sons) who appear in censuses as "ag lab" (or "son of ag lab"), or ... I can't think of any specifics, but I know I've read on here of several instances of that kind of cosmetic promotion. It's much the same as acquiring a father in time for a marriage cert, when the birth cert says "father unknown", or shedding/gaining a few years for appearances' sake, or because you're a minor and should have got parental consent.

                    Christine
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                    • #11
                      Sorry I've been away for a while. Thanks for your replies. I feel he couldn't write as his wife and one of her rellies that was a witness signed but you can tell particularly the witness that they rarely used a pen.

                      If I have the right person he is a MS in 1841, I can't quite read 1851 but the word Chemist is in it and in 1861 he is a chemical operative. No idea on that one but it sounds impressive.

                      lol Tom. Mine may be the same. I'm waiting on his son's marriage cert so it will be interesting to see what the occupation is there.

                      If anyone wants to look at the 1851 for me the name is Jonathan Dawson, wife Eliza HO107/2298 Page 16 folio 1003? in Yorkshire.
                      Kit

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                      • #12
                        It looks like Journeyman Chemist to me - perhaps he went around the villages/farms selling potions etc?
                        Elizabeth
                        Research Interests:
                        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Elizabeth. I wasn't sure as the copy I've saved is faint.

                          Am going to send you a PM about your Purkis's.
                          Kit

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kit the Kat View Post
                            Thanks Elizabeth. I wasn't sure as the copy I've saved is faint.

                            Am going to send you a PM about your Purkis's.
                            Oh, Kit, I look forward to that.

                            *Expectantly watching Private Messages icon*
                            Elizabeth
                            Research Interests:
                            England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                            Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

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                            • #15
                              PM sent.

                              *eagerly waits a reply*
                              Kit

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