View Full Version : Advice on ages and date please.....

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 13:33
Opinions please.......


04-01-08, 14:02
What a fine example of an early photograph. I would not hesitate in saying that this was taken during the 1850's. The style of photography used, the pose of the sitters and both the man and small boy's clothing draw me to this time line. As for ages of the sitters (I am not that good on this bit but will take a stab) the boy, being dressed in tunic and drawers would be no older than seven (as this was the age range when young boys came out of this style of clothing) and the gentleman I would place in his late fifties. One thing that I can not make out properly is if that is a full cravat or if he is sporting a newgate frill which was a style of whiskers that went under the chin and not on the face


Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 14:20
Thank you don. I will get out the original photo and a magnifier to check on his neckwear/facial hair!

I have a partial name on the back of the photo. It says "Uncle Tyler and Frank". I recognice the hand of the writer, but she wouldn't have had any uncles called Tyler. However, she would have had great-uncles with that surname. They were all born 1790-1800. I believe only two of them lived long enough to be the sitter. I need to sort out who Frank is! lolol

I'm off to find the original and check as to whether there is a photographers detail on it (I don't think there is, as I usually scan that too.....)

Jill on the A272
04-01-08, 14:30
That's a magnificent top hat on the side table, a very distinguished gent.

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 15:03
I think I know who he is!!

Of the two brothers who survived one stayed near their birth place in Oxfordshire (he was a wheelwright and carpenter), and the other one married his first cousin,Ann Marshall, and went to live in Cheltenham, where they ran a confectioners business. This man was quite well known amongst different branches of the family and was quite well to do (possibly because he didn't have any children and his wife was from a better connected branch?!!)

Anyway.....on the back of the photo is a motif which says "Photographed by G Bartett Hewlett Streeet, Cheltenham".....So, I think the picture is of John Tyler 1796-1887.

But whoever the little boy is, it's not his descendant, so I think I will have to give up on Frank!

On the 1861 census John and Ann Tyler are living at Hewlett House (lol) in Cheltenham and are listed on page 31 of district 1 in the town. On page 43 of the same district is George Bartlett, artist, aged 31.

In 1871 George Bartlett is still in Cheltenham and says he is an "artist (figure painter)"

I have a second photo of John Tyler taken at the same time as the first (I think). He is seated and the picture is from the waist upwards.

You don't suppose he was going to have his portrait painted and this photo wsas in preparation? Or might George Bartlett have supplemented his painting with photographic work, but didn't put it on the census for snob reasons?

Any more ideas??

I am very excited to think I probably know who this man was!! Thanks don!!

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 15:06
Oh and his whiskers!!

Not completely under the chin.....there's a three inch shaved gap between the whiskers!

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 15:13
I just googled "Bartlett" and "Hewlett St Cheltenham" and am inundated with refs to photographs. Plus the photographers address of Carlton Cottage which is where George Bartlett was living in 1871!!

Tied up nicely, I think!!!!

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 15:22
In 1851 John Tyler was living at 8 Hewlett St, but George Barteltt hadn't yet arrived in Cheltenham.

I think the photo is probably about 1860. I hope that is still OK for date? I would be hard pressed to say John Tyler was still in his 50's despite the thick head of hair!!

04-01-08, 21:01
yes middle 1800,s,boys were dress in girls clothes to the age of 6/7.the man is wearing a neck tie was he a minister?something strikes me about his appearance (respertarian minister) my employer has his grandfather and he,s wearing a bonnet too like a easter bonnet.brenda xxx

Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 21:14
Bren he was (on various censuses) a tea dealer, baker, grocer and confectioner. He was also a Quaker, but his dress seems pretty similar to other photos of a similar period........

Olde Crone Holden
04-01-08, 22:04
For the life of me I don't know why, but something about this photo is saying "Swedish" to me - the little boy's clothing is a bit fancy for a Quaker???


Merry Monty Montgomery
04-01-08, 22:10
In Cheltenham, OC??!!

Have you finished that wine yet??