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Three weeks of looking and getting nowhere

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  • Three weeks of looking and getting nowhere

    If anyone is bored and has the inclination, here is my frustration! UPDATE ON PAGE 3

    John George Sewell, born 1850 in Norwich
    Married Mary Ann Hall in April 1878 - Norwich Registry Office.
    (Father - John Sewell, Taylor, deceased) No Sewell witnesses.

    I have John George on 1881 Census at 8 Britannia Terrace, Norwich with his wife and son.
    I have him on 1891 in Waterloo Road.

    What I cannot find, not anywhere, is his birth certificate, nor can I find him and his father prior to 1881. I have searched Ancestry night after night in 1851, and 1861, but have found nothing. The most puzzling thing is not being able to find his birth. Can anyone help me please before my poor brain implodes.
    If some kind soul should reply and I don't answer - then I will have collapsed with exhaustion and gone to bed. Will reply tomorrow!
    Last edited by sally; 07-01-08, 19:48. Reason: update
    Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

  • #2
    How far out would this be?

    HO107; Piece: 1821; Folio: 795; Page: 11; GSU roll: 207474-207475.
    dad John is a Silk weaver
    Last edited by Jessbowbag; 30-12-07, 21:09.
    Jess

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    • #3
      Hi Jess, yes, sorry!!! It was Tailor as in occupation.
      Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sally , sorry I want to delete that , it looks rude however I phrased it-sorry
        Jess

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        • #5
          Hey!!! Don't you dare worry about that Jess; it was my fault!!! and me with an A in English O level too. I blame Christmas!!
          Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

          Comment


          • #6
            Had a look at your find Jess, and will keep it to hand because it's the nearest thing yet!! The area of Norfolk seems to be wrong (they all seemed to stay in Norwich) and the age of John junior is awry, but you never know. Especially as following the "correct" pattern has yeilded nowt as they say. Thank you for your help
            Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

            Comment


            • #7
              Could this be John Sewell?

              HO107
              ; Piece: 1816; Folio: 22; Page: 37; GSU roll: 207469.

              John Sewell - taylor Widow

              Daughter Emma 8
              No John George though. Mother died in childbirth by the looks of it.
              Wendy



              PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

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              • #8
                Hi Wendy - yes I found that one, and thought that maybe Emma aged 8 was still with Daddy, but a newborn baby would be with somewhere else. Blowed if I could find him though, and as I say, his birth record is missing
                Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry Sally, can't help any more, Ancestry has packed up on me. The boy with the rope is back!!! Will try again later.
                  Wendy



                  PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

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                  • #10
                    Thank you anyway Wendy - I hate it when Ancestry does that!! Still you HAVE helped, and Jess. As you picked out the same John that I did, I feel that he is probably the right one, which is something anyway, even if it doesn't solve the mystery of his son's birth. Until I find that, or John senior ten years earlier, hopefully with his wife, I can go no further.
                    Night night for now, and thanks again
                    Sally - Researching amongst others, JOSEPHY; WRIGHTSON; COOPER; GLOVER; DOWNING AND DICKINSON.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just managed to get back on again


                      1841 John before he married Rachel Littell who is living next door!!!


                      HO107; Piece 788; Book: 2; Civil Parish: St Augustine; County: Norfolk; Enumeration District: 15; Folio: 36; Page: 28; Line: 19; GSU roll: 438869.


                      Also found Mark Sewell, Aunt Clara's (on Census with family) husband with his parents in 1841 Coslany, Norwich, which is just up the road from St. Augustines. I was born in Norwich, so know the area well!


                      Class: HO107; Piece 789; Book: 11; Civil Parish: St Mary; County: Norfolk; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 30; Page: 14; Line: 4; GSU roll: 438870.


                      IGI has a marriage of John Sewell (father - John) to Rachel Littell (father - William) 16 May 1842 St Augustines, Norwich.


                      A submitted entry has these two with a daughter Emma born Lowestoft (the one on the 1851 census)


                      I cannot find a death for Rachel though.
                      Last edited by WendyPusey; 30-12-07, 22:27. Reason: added
                      Wendy



                      PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

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                      • #12
                        A few thoughts:
                        • I have one or two people in my tree who swopped their first name and middle name over, and one or two who started off with just one first name but gave themselves a middle name later in life. So his birth could be registered as John Sewell or George John Sewell, or even George Sewell. Also, he could be registered as Male Sewell if they registered his birth before deciding on his name.

                          It could be that his birth wasn't registered at all, relatively common in those days I'm afraid. Have you tried looking for a baptism?

                          There is a Rachael Sewells death registered in Sep 1844 Norwich - could be a baby who died or it could be John's wife and then he married again to John George's mother and was widowed again?

                          There is a Sewell one-name study but it includes various other names such as Sole and I seem to remember when I looked into it you had to pay to joint it or something. And Sewell is a pretty common name so they might not have any info on your branch, but you never know.

                          Variants on the surname include Sewel and Sa(y)well and there are loads of others but probably by the time we are looking at spellings would have settled down a bit!

                          Just a minor point, but on the 1841 it looks as if John senior is not living next door to Rachel and her family but in the same house, since there is only a single line between them and him, not a double one.

                          It would be worth looking for Rachel Littell senior on the 1851 and subsequent censuses to see if John George is with her.

                          There is a John Sewell marriage in Jun 1852 in Norwich, I wonder if that is the same John Sewell?


                        Got to go to bed now!
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rachael Littell senior appears to have died in 1845

                          Death
                          Rachael Littell
                          1845 Jun
                          Norwich 13 191
                          Last edited by samesizedfeet; 31-12-07, 01:49.
                          Zoe in London

                          Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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                          • #14
                            Sister Ann Littell appears to remain single and alive to a ripe old age

                            can't see her in 1851/61/71 yet

                            1881
                            RG11; Piece: 1951; Folio: 100; Page: 21;
                            visitor Louis Chollet 6 and WIlliam Chollet 4

                            1891
                            RG12; Piece: 1530; Folio 104; Page 7
                            nephew Louis Collez, 16 and WIlliam Chollez 14

                            1901
                            RG13; Piece: 1844; Folio: 15; Page: 21.
                            grand nephew Louis Collet, 26
                            Zoe in London

                            Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nothing to add, except that if you can't find him, he may have been born with a different surname, or is badly mistranscribed. Obvious errors might be Lewell, Tewell, Fewell etc.
                              ~ with love from Little Nell~
                              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                              • #16
                                Needless to say, I only spotted the John Sewell 1852 marriage after typing all the rest of my post in, but after seeing it my guess is that either John George was born after this marriage and added a few years onto his age later, or was born before this marriage and registered with his mother's surname before she married John Sewell. But it was so late that I didn't have time to try to work out who he married etc.
                                KiteRunner

                                Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh, this is a real backwards and forwards one, isn't it? I can well believe that you have spent 3 weeks on it so far!

                                  The Jun 1852 marriage entry has 4 names to sort out:
                                  Elizabeth Barnes, Ann Rackham, John Sewell and Jeremiah Smith.

                                  There is a Jeremiah Smith in Norwich on the 1871 census with a wife Elizabeth and their oldest child's age fits perfectly with them having married in 1852.

                                  There is an Ann Sewell, 43 year old widow, on the 1861 census in Norwich, housekeeper for John Rackham, a 71-year-old widower. But she doesn't have any children with her, unless John Rackham's grandson Arthur Rackham age 16, is her son.

                                  Anyway, the above does suggest that a John Sewell married Ann Rackham in 1852. There is a John Sewell death registered in Norwich in Mar 1853.

                                  In 1851 Ann Rackham is an unmarried servant for a family whose surname I can't quite make out - Keith or Heath or something - and there is a Sarah Sewell age 56 in the same household, "cousin" of head, unmarried, born Ashwelthorpe. But Ann doesn't have any children. Bother! Anyway, you could get a few certificates - the John Sewell / Ann Rackham marriage cert and the John Sewell death cert - and see if his occupation is tailor on either or both. Oh, and the Rachael Sewells death cert.
                                  Last edited by KiteRunner; 31-12-07, 13:55.
                                  KiteRunner

                                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It looks as if Ann then married a James Wier in 1862 and then she is a widow again by 1871! She doesn't have a son with her in 1871, unfortunately (only a niece Julia Kent) and in 1881 she has a visitor Emma R Chollet, married, age 38, born Lowestoft. Looks like the Emma who was 8 in 1851, doesn't it? But I must have another break from this lot now. Still no sign of John George anywhere!
                                    KiteRunner

                                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Just to say that Emma Chollet died Sep 1881 age 39 Norwich, and I can't find any Emma Sewell / Chollet marriage nor can I find Emma under either name in 1861 or 1871 (I was hoping John George might be with her.)
                                      Last edited by KiteRunner; 31-12-07, 19:21.
                                      KiteRunner

                                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I just realised that Emma must be the mother of Louis and William who Zoe found with Ann Littell in 1881 and 1891, and they were born in France, so Emma probably married their father Monsieur Chollet in France which would explain why I can't find her marriage. I wonder whether John George was in France too for at least one of the missing census entries? I can't think of an easy way to find out.
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                        Comment

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