PDA

View Full Version : What can I try next with these Walkers?



Helen Smith Too
17-12-07, 20:13
How can I progress this family?

I've asked about them before, but haven't managed to get anywhere, so has anyone got any ideas?

1871 Census, Leeds ref RG10, Piece 4533, Folio 12, Page 17

Family by the name of Walker

Head - Thomas, wife Ellen
Children - John (20), Edward (12), Arthur (10), Harry (7) & Charles (2)

All except Charles were born in Hull. Charles was born in Leeds.
I have his birth certificate - mother Ellen Walker, formerly Smith.

Ellen died in 1877, and I have Thomas and the boys on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses.
Thomas' age is consistent throughout - 42 in 1871, 52 in 1881, 62 in 1891 & 72 in 1901.

So the problem is that I can find no trace of this family prior to Charles birth in Leeds in 1868.

I've sent for all the obvious birth certificates with no joy and cannot find a marriage for Thomas & Ellen.

Help, please.

Thanks for looking

Helen

Merry Monty Montgomery
17-12-07, 21:04
There are these two births for Arthur in Hull:

Births Q3 1860
WALKER Arthur Hull 9d 193

Births Q2 1861
Walker Arthur Hull 9d 218

I think the second one may be Thomas' son as the other one shows on the census as aged 9 months and has different parents.

I wonder what the address is on that second birth cert??!!

Jessbowbag
17-12-07, 21:15
where was Ellen born please? do we know that?

Helen Smith Too
17-12-07, 22:17
Ellen was born in Hull according to the 1871 census, and the Arthur born in May 1861 was the son of Edward P & Fanny (who also have an Edward of the same age as mine).

Helen

Anne in Carlisle
17-12-07, 22:20
Sorry, Helen. I've had a good look at censuses and FreeBMD using all the tricks I can think of and there's nothing remotely like them.

It seems really strange that there's no sign at all. Makes you wonder if they changed their name???

Anne

Len of the Chilterns
17-12-07, 22:35
Hull suggests trawlers or coastal ships. So does Whitehaven in Cumbria.

On 6th November 1896, a six/seven-month old baby was abandoned in Whitehaven on the steps of The Seamans Christian Mission. A note pinned to her clothing said "name Lilian Walker". She was eventually adopted into my family but her parentage never traced

Any of your rellies have connections with Whitehaven?

Darksecretz
18-12-07, 09:46
how does this one look??

1851: Class: HO107; Piece: 2362; Folio: 437; Page: 5;

ellen walker 25
hannah walker 5
john walker 29
Joseph walker 4
mary a walker 1

Johns occ is labourer,

this is in st marys dist in hull btw.

if ellen was born in 1826 then i would expect more children

Darksecretz
18-12-07, 10:02
1851:Class: HO107; Piece: 2362; Folio: 417; Page: 38

same names as above except ellen is trans as Helen walker

Helen Smith Too
18-12-07, 17:35
Thanks for the replies.

Ellen was married to Thomas, not John, and in 1851 he should only have been 22.
The first child I have is John W, born approx 1851.

On Ellen's death dert of Sept 1877, her age is given as 50.

On all the censuses from 1871 onwards the Walkers have occupations connected to the railway.



Len, I do have a Whitehaven connection. Unfortunately its with my ancestors - these Walkers are OHs.

Helen

Phoenix
18-12-07, 17:58
I expect this has been asked before, but have you looked for a marriage of Thomas to Ellen shortly before Charles' birth?
Without an earlier census, you have no idea who the mother of the elder boys is (at it is unlikely, but not impossible that they should all have different mothers.
If you combine that with the possibility that the father was at sea, or possibly simply working away from home, the challenge gets worse.
Add to that that Ellen might have been a widow when she married, and you can see that things are getting complicated!

Phoenix
18-12-07, 19:15
I can't find Edward & Fanny in 1871. Are they mistranscribed? Or is it remotely possible that that P is actually a curly T?

There is a Sculcoates marriage in 1857 for a Thomas Walker & a Frances Holmes is another name on the page.

Phoenix
18-12-07, 19:24
Skip that: Thomas and Fanny are in Sculcoates in 1881, with a Holmes family nearby!

Helen Smith Too
18-12-07, 19:47
It is Edward P. P for Parker. I have 2 of their kids certificates, and Fanny's maiden name was Harbord.

I have found a marriage in Basford in 1864 between an Ellen Smith & Thomas Walker, which after Christmas I might send for.

And I'm well aware that the gaps between the children could point to different parentage. On Charles' birth certificate it only gives one previous name for Ellen - Smith.

Thanks for the help.

Helen

Phoenix
18-12-07, 20:47
Our ancestors don't like to help us, do they?
I've got two birth certificates for children of the same couple and on neither does it suggest that the mother was previously married. It took me years pre freebmd (and purchase of the wrong marriage cert) to find the marriage, in a different county to where they settled.

Helen Smith Too
18-12-07, 21:00
I think Hull is just one big black hole!
I have some of my ancestors there (Walkers are OHs) in the 1850s - but do they show up on the censuses? Do they 4*!

Children born either side of the census - at least they registered them!

The only time I've ever managed to find a family in Hull was by complete accident. A family from Cumberland in 1841 - found because they weren't 'born in county'.

Again, thanks for the help. I'll wait until after Christmas and try the Basford marriage cert. It can only be wrong.

Helen

Anne in Carlisle
19-12-07, 14:12
Helen - I'm sure you already realise this, but just in case you don't ....
Hull sometimes doesn't show up as the census place because it is listed as 'Holy Trinity'; 'Sculcoates'; 'Marfleet'; 'Sutton' and other names which are names for different parts of Hull. For some reason the census often just uses those names and that's how they appear on Ancestry.

My OH and most of his rellies are from Hull ... before that many of them came from Lincolnshire - a good place to look if you can't find them!

Anne

Helen Smith Too
19-12-07, 19:47
Hi Anne,

My own 'missing in Hull' family were from Lincolnshire - the Isle of Axholme area, and I've loads of records for them going backwards from the local FHS.
But my Duffields moved to Hull and disappeared - William died in 1856 at the age of 33 and never appeared on a census, and his wife makes her 1st appearance in 1871, despite being born in 1826! (and that was back home in Lincs.)

Helen