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  • Signatures on Marriage Certificate

    I have the certificate of the couple I believe may have been my grandparents

    They were married by " Deputy Superindent Registrar's Certificate"

    I have looked at it several times, but only just noticed that it looks as though the signatures of the Bride and Groom were written by the same person!

    Is it possible that someone else signed on their behalves??

    (I have the cert in photobucket, but have no idea how to post the relevant portion here!)
    Joan died in July 2020.

  • #2
    Are they signatures? Or do you have a transcription-certificate?

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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    • #3
      Hi Chris
      I'm pretty sure it's a photocopy - other signatures look different
      Joan died in July 2020.

      Comment


      • #4
        Joan, where did you get the cert from? (and where did they marry?)

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Merry,

          They married in St George's Church, Altrincham in 1905, and I got the certificate from Cheshire BMD ( it's my wretched Beatrice Webbs causing problems again!!)

          In fact it's even odder as it looks to me as though both the witnesses' signatures were written in another same hand - a different one from the bride and groom!!!!
          Joan died in July 2020.

          Comment


          • #6
            Is that C of E?

            If it was, it's quite rare to be married by a superintendent registrars certificate. They were normally issued to enable people to marry in a non-conformist church where the registrar would need to be present, though they could be used in the C of E, but normally only if someone changed their mind at the last minute! lol

            My gg-grandparents did just the same when they married in 1849!

            I can't imagine why the sigs look as they do? No one else should have signed for anyone else. If any party couldn't sign for any reason, they would have had to make their mark instead.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, it is C of E - Family story (hush, hush!) is that the vicar had advised the bride not to go ahead with the wedding
              Joan died in July 2020.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have come across one case recently where a C of E wedding followed a Bishop's cert (I think). One or other party hadn't grasped that the Banns had to be called in both churches!

                Christine
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                  I have come across one case recently where a C of E wedding followed a Bishop's cert (I think). One or other party hadn't grasped that the Banns had to be called in both churches!

                  Christine
                  Hi Christine - I doubt there was a Bishop's Cert in this case - I think the groom was simply " a scurrilous piece of work", as I have been told, and the vicar was not happy about proceeding with the wedding..... and yet......
                  Joan died in July 2020.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Muggins

                    The copy you got from Cheshire Register Office will not be the original, it will be a copy made by the Vicar when he filled in his returns and sent them to the local register office.

                    The original entry will remain with the church, or probably, by now, in the county records office.

                    (See how Merry has scared me with her talk of confusing abbreviations, lol!)

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      I was going to say this on the other thread about sigs, but perhaps it's better on here - the copy of a church marriage cert which comes from the local register office could be one that was copied out by a church official before it was sent to the register office, couldn't it? I think I read in some info that Merry posted up about marriage certs a while ago that the bride and groom etc were supposed to sign both the church copy and the register office's copy? But in some cases for whatever reason, it didn't actually work out like that and the copy sent to the register office ended up being written out as a copy. So for church weddings, you may well have to look at the actual parish register copy to see the proper signatures.
                      KiteRunner

                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes, there were supposed to be two to sign, I'm just saying that in some cases the actual people didn't sign the second one.
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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                        • #13
                          Tom

                          I don't understand what you mean - I would EXPECT a filmed copy to have the same signatures as the "original" document!

                          I'm with Kate here - I have a feeling that sometimes the second copy didnt get filled in till the happy couple had gone their merry way.

                          The only way, to be absolutely sure you are seeing their original signatures, is to see the church register - but even THAT could be overlooked at the time (unlikely, I think, though).

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            I think this certificate must be a photocopy of the original, because that is what it looks like, and because there is a distinct variety in handwriting styles - although strangely, all other certificates I have had from the same source have obviously been modern handwritten copies.

                            Now I seem to have lost the blasted thing!!!
                            Last edited by Muggins in Sussex; 12-12-07, 12:52.
                            Joan died in July 2020.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have my parents' marriage certificate and the signatures are originals, in different inks for added conviction! but I believe that this was unusual, and you usually bore off with you a copy that the vicar, registrar etc had made out. There are certainly no live signatures (apart from the registrar!) on any of the other original certificates in my possession.
                              Phoenix - with charred feathers
                              Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                We have our original marriage certificate which we filled in at the time. I made a mistake in spelling my middle name :o and its a bit of a blob.

                                Imagine how pleased I was to see, on the parish record certificate, that my gg grandmother (Ann Goodgames) had done exactly the same thing with her middle name :D

                                I can't remember filling in a duplicate certificate when we were married - but it was a long time ago!

                                Anne

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                  Muggins

                                  The copy you got from Cheshire Register Office will not be the original, it will be a copy made by the Vicar when he filled in his returns and sent them to the local register office.

                                  The original entry will remain with the church, or probably, by now, in the county records office.

                                  (See how Merry has scared me with her talk of confusing abbreviations, lol!)

                                  OC

                                  ooooh, how I hate to disagree (takes deep breath!)

                                  When you marry in a C of E church you sign two copies of the marriage cert. One of the marriage registers will eventually end up at the County Record Office and the other one will end up at the local Register Office. So if you get your cert from either of those places it should have the original handwriting on it. (which is why I can't understand why yours appears not to!)

                                  The copy at the GRO will be in the handwriting of the vicar as he is the one who will have made the quarterly return to the GRO.

                                  *scuttles away*

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by KiteRunner View Post
                                    Yes, there were supposed to be two to sign, I'm just saying that in some cases the actual people didn't sign the second one.

                                    This is probably the answer!

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                                      I have my parents' marriage certificate and the signatures are originals, in different inks for added conviction! but I believe that this was unusual, and you usually bore off with you a copy that the vicar, registrar etc had made out. There are certainly no live signatures (apart from the registrar!) on any of the other original certificates in my possession.
                                      Odd that there are different inks. They are supposed to be done in indelible ink, which I'm told makes a real mess of a fountain pen if it dries.
                                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                      • #20
                                        By the way, I think I may have mentioned this once before, but once I was looking through the marriage entries in one of the Notts parish registers and a certain person's name (think he was the parish clerk or some such) appeared as witness on every single one, in the same place, regardless of whether there was only one or two other witnesses. It looked very likely that he just went through the book signing all the marriage entries at one time, rather than at the time of the ceremony! And I strongly suspect that he signed them in advance.
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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