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Chrissmith1980
19-11-07, 16:08
Im trying to find some info on my great great great gand parents.I woujld like to find out where his grave is and if he had any step kids or got re married and his dads name and where his grave is and also.This is the info i have so far

Marion P Smith
1900 - living in Lanette, Chambers, Alabama
Age: 53
Born abt 1847 i think its 1846 in Alabam
Name of spouse Lissie M
Race - White

Other members of household
Marion P Smith 53
Lissie M Smith 49
Ada R Smith 23
Jessie C Smith 21
William L Smith 17
Walter Fletcher Smith 8
Clemmie P Smith 7

On one one thing i seen was lisse m had 8 kids 6 of them alive.

Elaine ..Spain
19-11-07, 16:29
First of all welcome to FTF!
You may not be aware of our guidelines but we do not allow a direct copy and paste from sites such as Ancestry as it contravenes copyright.
I have edited your post, hopefully without removing any important information.

Chrissmith1980
20-11-07, 10:03
guess no one wants to help me

HeleninGlos
20-11-07, 10:08
Hi Chris
Welcome from me as well. Don't be disheartened, I expect there are lots of people who do want to help you but are not sure where to start. I'm sorry but I for one don't have a clue about American research. I think you might just need to wait a while until someone experienced in American research is on the boards and they may be able to give you some pointers.
Good Luck, Helen

KiteRunner
20-11-07, 10:10
Chris, do you know when Lissie died?
(By the way, I'm sure you already know this, but Smiths take a lot of work!!!)

Just Gillian
20-11-07, 10:11
Hello Chris and welcome.
Helen beat me to it as I was about to say something similar. I only have a sub to Ancestry uk so can't help you with American research I'm afraid.

KiteRunner
20-11-07, 10:17
Chris, if you have a sub or credits on ancestry.com then you should be able to look at the family's entry for 1910 - look for Marion P K Smith born about 1847, still living in Chambers. There is also Lizzie age 50 and Clemmie (mistranscribed as Elemmie) age 17. Sorry, I haven't got a sub so I can't look at the image myself!

Nana Anna
20-11-07, 10:18
Hi Chris looks like you might find something on Ancestry.com > Alabama Cemeteries - Cemetery Records - Genealogy (http://interment.net/us/al/index.htm)

KiteRunner
20-11-07, 10:22
And there he is on the 1920 as well, still in Chambers, born abt 1845. This particular Marion Smith seems to appear at the top or very near the top of each search - must be because he lived in Alabama. Hovering the cursor on a name for the 1920 doesn't seem to give a list of who else is in the household, so you would have to use a sub or credit to view the image to find that out. I can't see him in 1930, so maybe he had died by then?

KiteRunner
20-11-07, 10:29
There is a Marion P Smith death in Chambers in 1930 on the "Alabama Deaths, 1908-1959" database on ancestry, again you need a sub or credits to view the full entry.

KiteRunner
20-11-07, 10:46
Hopefully if you look at the images for some of those censuses it will give you info such as where was Marion born, and where his parents were born. I can't find the family on the 1880 census at the moment except for a possible Marian and Catharine with loads of children including an Ada age 3 - but they have an older Jessie, so probably not the same family. If the full 1900 census entry tells you where Ada and Jessie were born, it should help with looking for them on the 1880. Unfortunately the 1890 isn't available.

Chrissmith1980
20-11-07, 20:03
Comfused what credits is and also i think he did have a girl name ada witch was the oldest from what i seen on another site. and also I heard from my uncle that he thinks he got devoiced before dont know if thats after lisse or before that im not sure.Did anyone find anything on where his gtave might be

Chrissmith1980
20-11-07, 20:14
I do know for fact he had son name walter flecher smith and clemmie but thats the only two that my dad knows about and we didnt even know marion full name all we knew was pope smith but it found his name online with his kids on acestery.com but i only had the trial and dint get to look much. So the one that died in 1930 is the one but who all he was married to or his parents name or where is grave is we have no idea :(

KiteRunner
20-11-07, 21:56
Chris, what I mean by "credits" is, Ancestry were offering pay-as-you-go credits to view a limited number of records for people who didn't want to take out a full subscription, but I can't find the info right now... I'll see if I can post it up later...
Well, I've found a UK page about it, but I'm not sure if you will be able to buy the pay-per-view credits if you live in the USA, or if you would have to take out a full subscription.
Pay-Per-View - Ancestry.co.uk (http://www.ancestry.co.uk/subscribe/products/Default.aspx?p=ppv)

Chrissmith1980
21-11-07, 03:33
I just got signed up for membership there
but i cant find much because i dont know hoqw to use the site to well

WendyP
21-11-07, 06:15
HI


If no one else can help out I'll be back on later today, not sure when for definate, but I will see what I acn do as I have a full USA sub.


Can you confirm it's the Marion P K Smith bn circa 1847 in Alabama that you want further info on?

KiteRunner
21-11-07, 08:01
Wendy, just in case Chris doesn't log back on before you, looking back at my post #7 on here, that Marion P K Smith has a wife Lizzie and child Clemmie, so it definitely is the same family that Chris is looking for. She needs the rest of the information from the censuses to find out where Marion and Lizzie (and the children) were born to be able to trace them back.

KiteRunner
21-11-07, 08:35
I just got signed up for membership there
but i cant find much because i dont know hoqw to use the site to well


Chris, if you start with the home page
Ancestry.com -- Browser Upgrade (http://www.ancestry.com/) then click on the "Search" tab.

Make sure you have the "Historical Records" tab selected.
For "First & Middle Name(s)" type Marion, and for "Last Name" type Smith.
Click on the "Search" button.
You should get a list of databases where matches for the name have been found, starting with Census Records. Fourth one down is the 1900 census, so click on that and your Marion will be the sixth one on that list - Marion P Smith, Chambers Alabama, born abt 1847. Over on the right is a "View Image" button to click on, and then it should load the image of the actual census page with all the info such as Marion's birthplace etc. If you can save the image and copy out all the information given for the family then it should help you a lot in trying to trace them.

Then go back to the list of database matches and choose the 1910 census - your Marion is the fourth one on the list, Marion P K Smith. And do the same.
Then 1920 - he is the top one on that list, Marion P Smith born abt 1845.

Hopefully when you have all the info about the family from those 3 censuses, we will be able to trace them back to the 1880 census and see whether Marion was married to Lizzie then too, or if he had a different wife before her, and then start on finding out who his parents were.

Going back to the list of database matches on ancestry, the second main set is called Birth, Marriage & Death Records. If you click on "View all 11,734 results" then it comes back with a long list of databases in that section. In the bottom right-hand corner it will say something like "Viewing 1-10 of 201 Next" so keep clicking on "Next" until you get to "Viewing 51-60 of 201" and you should see "Alabama Deaths, 1908-59" on the list. Click on that and it looks as if your Marion is the tenth one on the list, Marion P Smith 1930 Chambers. If you click on "View Record" on the left of his name then it should tell you name of the deceased, county of death, date of death, and the state certificate number (volume and page). There is also an "Order record" button on the right, which will take you to a page where you can order a copy of his death certificate. When you have all the info of when and where he died, I would think the best way to find out where he is buried (assuming he wasn't cremated?) would be to contact the cemeteries near where he died and ask if he is buried there. This link should take you to a list of cemeteries in Chambers County (unfortunately it doesn't have contact details for them)


http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/al/chambers/cemeteries/gniscemeteries.txt

WendyP
21-11-07, 14:38
HI

Ok, this is the closest I can get to him


1860 Chambers Alabama

Moses Smith 53 Farmer bn Georgia
Martha Smith 46 bn South Carolina
James M Smith 18 bn Alabama
Marion P Smith 14 bn Alabama
Isaac Smith 12 bn Alabma
?octor T Smith 10 bn Alabama
George W Smith 6 bn Alabama
Sarah E Smith 3 bn Alabama


He then seems to disappear off the scale going on these details that we have for him.


I have however found a marriage in 22nd August 1889 to an Elizabeth Ragsdale in Chambers, Alabama


This is backed up by the 1920 USA Census showing


Jessie Ragsdale 41 bn Alabama and in his household is Marion P Smith 75 shown as Step father.


These also a Martha D Dean, widow, aged 68 shown as an Aunt to head of household not sure which side of family she is from yet but I will have a look for you.

WendyP
21-11-07, 14:53
HI

And just to double show the connection here is the 1880 in Blommingdale, Chambers


William Ra*sdale 31 Occ Farmer
Lizzie Ra*sdale 29
Ada Ra*sdale 2
Jesse Ra*sdale 1

Dead Rellies
21-11-07, 16:04
Just to let you know - most people dont answer right away as they are busy looking for you, so be patient and keep checking back. good luck.

Dead Rellies
21-11-07, 16:10
Possible ??

1880; Census Place: Lafayette, Chambers, Alabama; Roll: T9_5; Family History Film: 1254005; Page: 123.4000; Enumeration District: 21; Image: 0456.

Chrissmith1980
21-11-07, 16:12
Then why on the 1900 United States Federal Census it shows jessie ada and the kids as smith ? and not ragsdale? I know for fact that walter fleacher smith was really a smith and clemmie

WendyP
21-11-07, 16:16
HI Chris

Well of course Walter and Clemmie were Smith, they were born after the marriage in 1889 wasn't they.


Sometimes its probably the fault of the enumerator as to why children get the assumed the surname of the head of the house where there are two married adults.

KiteRunner
21-11-07, 17:37
Chris, I'm sure you must know some families where the children have had their surname changed to their stepfather's surname? I certainly know lots like that where I live!

Chrissmith1980
22-11-07, 11:18
So im guessing she was married before she married my marion and the older kids was from another marrige but the young walter and clemmise was marions kids that makes sense.So now lets say i went by the heath department in chambers Valley Alabama and asked them to look up death cert for marion Would that have where his grave is ?

KiteRunner
22-11-07, 11:22
I doubt it, Chris, because I would assume that the death certificate would be issued before the burial could take place, same as in England. Sorry.

Chrissmith1980
22-11-07, 16:33
So im wondering how do yall think hes dads name was mooses ? And on the marion p K Smith it says his father was from Alabama but on the 1920 c it says father was from GA

KiteRunner
22-11-07, 16:58
Well, the reason that Wendy thinks his father was Moses would be because she found Marion on the 1860 census with Moses. It says on that 1860 census entry that Moses was from Georgia, so if that's what it says on the 1920 census as well then it is probably right. Unfortunately census entries are not always 100% accurate.

Chrissmith1980
22-11-07, 17:01
;/ wish i could just find out where marion grave is :confused: its so hard

Chrissmith1980
28-11-07, 17:21
anymore advice?

KiteRunner
28-11-07, 18:17
Did you try contacting the cemeteries on that list I posted up the link to?

Chrissmith1980
04-12-07, 20:10
Ok i got his death record.It had on there his dads name was wesly smith and mom patsy smith .It had the place where his grave is but me and uncle went by there and c didnt see it so not sure if we read it wroung or what.Said bethal but we went to another place beside that and found alot of smiths but was getting dark but i did see a grave that said jessie O ragsdale.So that was interesting.Im trying to find out if that mooses is his marions dad Could wesly be his first name and mooses his middle ?Can oneone find out.Also the jessie ragsdale i found said he died 1930 but thats the same year marion p smith died so im not sure because there is no 1940 cense for me to look at to see if jessie is still alive.Also i cant find nothing on clemmie if he had kids or what

KiteRunner
04-12-07, 23:02
Did anybody ever check the image for the 1860 census entry to see if it really said "Moses"? I wonder if it could be that it actually says Wesly and has been mistranscribed as Moses? But I don't have the US sub to check the image myself.
Patsy could be short for Martha.

Update - I've been ferreting around on the 1850 census, though again not having a sub I can't view the entries. Of course there are a lot of Smiths in Chambers, but there is a Doctor P Smith age 0 listed, who must surely be your Marion's brother, and I am guessing that Moses age 42, Martha A age 35, James M age 7 and Marion age 4 are all in that same family (can't see Isaac on the list). It would really need somebody to look at the image to check if that's right though. If so, then it seems that "Moses" isn't just a mistranscription as it wouldn't be misread the same on two different censuses.

Another update - found Moses and Martha on the 1880 census:
Chappell Hill, Chambers, Alabama
Moses Smith 72 Farmer born Georgia, father born Virginia, mother born Georgia
Martha E Smith 61 Wife born Georgia, both parents born Georgia
Oliver Watson Smith 23 other born Georgia
Laura A Smith wife (presumably of Oliver) 17 born Alabama
Aldora Smith daughter (ditto) 1m born Alabama

So, we still don't know why he is Wesly on his son's death cert, if we have the right family. I have to go to bed now but hope to return to this tomorrow....

obarean
04-12-07, 23:35
hi
will be honest not read all the posts as just passing through, but FamilySearch.org - Family History and Genealogy Records (http://www.familysearch.org) gives a lot of usa info, hope that helps

KiteRunner
05-12-07, 10:09
Just a thought about the grave, Chris - could it be that he is buried there but there is no headstone? The reason for this could be either that there used to be one but it was taken down, perhaps because it was damaged, or that the family never put one up, perhaps because they couldn't afford to. I would think that if you contact whoever is in charge of looking after that cemetery, they will have a plan of the grave plots and will be able to tell you if he is buried there and if so, exactly where he is buried.

KiteRunner
05-12-07, 11:35
I wonder whether it could be that the name has been written wrong on Marion's death cert - somebody misread Moses as Wesly? I still think the Marion P Smith who was the son of Moses on the censuses must be your Marion, but I can't think of another reason why it would say Wesly for his father's name on the death cert.

If you go onto ancestry and search the family trees instead of the Historical Records and search for Moses Smith born 1808 in Georgia, you will see that somebody has him in their tree, and you can contact that person and ask if they have any information that might help you. (When you type in Moses Smith as the name to search for, ancestry automatically adds Smith for father's surname on the search form and you will have to delete that before clicking on search, because the person whose tree it is hasn't put in details of Moses's father)

When you look at the info about people in the trees, you may find that sometimes you have to scroll down past several blank lines to see everything.

One of the people who has Moses in their tree is in the "Public Member Trees" section, and she doesn't have much info about him, but there are two people who have him on their trees in the "Ancestry World Trees" section. One of them has Marion down as a girl(!) but the other one has quite a bit of info about Marion, showing him as married twice, the first time to Martha J Johnson Jul 12 1868 and the second time to Elizabeth M Ragsdale 22 Aug 1889. She doesn't have details of Elizabeth's previous marriage and children, and she lists Ada, Jessie and Wiliam as being Marion's children from his first marriage so I'm not sure how accurate her info will be, but I would certainly say it is going to be worth you contacting her.
She shows Clemmie as marrying and having three children, by the way.

Got to get off the computer and get some stuff done now, but I hope that ancestry tree contact can help you.

WendyP
05-12-07, 13:24
HI


1920 USA Census Five Points, Chambers, Alabama


Clemmie P Smith bn 1893 Alabama
Fannie Smith bn 1896 Alabama
Helen Smith bn 1913 Chambers,Alabama
Clemmie G Smith bn 1917 Chambers, Alabama


There shows a burial for the young son who was bn 1917ish

AUG 1973 West Point Cemetery, West Point, Georgia

Added after initial reply

1930 shows an additional daughter Frances aged 8 also bn Alabama

Chrissmith1980
05-12-07, 16:33
Oh and the P in his name stands for Polk. Also mariin p died in roanoke Alabama what it says on death cert. But the church we went to was called bethal but its in chambers county so i dont understamnd that.But down from there was another church we looked and it was getting dark but that grave with jessiie O ragsdale was interesting to see he died in 1930 the same year marion died and also on marin death cert it does say Infomer J O Ragsdale

Chrissmith1980
05-12-07, 17:37
I cant fidn the person you said that had all the info about marion

KiteRunner
05-12-07, 17:40
Chris, I'll send you a PM because I don't want to post up their email address on the thread.

If he was buried in the place he lived before the place where he died, it could be that the burial plot was already paid for in advance?

WendyP
05-12-07, 19:17
HI

Well it all ties in then.


Marion P (K) Smith was living with his stepson at the time of the 1920 Census see my reply number 19


Mari* was shown as a Widow as well.


Jessie (O) Ragsdale was still alive at the time of the census with his wife Annie and 6 kids at home as well.


So I would say you have the right man just a pity that name name WESLY doesnt fit with what we can see in the census as being the father of Mari* P K Smith.

Chrissmith1980
05-12-07, 21:06
Wish i knew tho if the jessie i seen at that cematary that died in 1930 is the same jessise o ragsdale im sure it it is but him and marin died in 1930 if it is.Now his dad being wesly maybe thats his first name or middle name i dont know.also on the death cert it said marion was born in 1844

KiteRunner
05-12-07, 23:34
Chris, don't forget that the info on the death cert is only as accurate as the knowledge of the person who registered the death. My Granny's death cert says she was born in 1913 because that's what she told everyone, but she was actually born in 1910.


As for Jessie Ragsdale, I suppose you could get a copy of his death certificate too and see if the info matches? I can't see any reason why he couldn't have died in the same year as Marion - unless I'm missing something?

Chrissmith1980
06-12-07, 14:44
any new info

WendyP
06-12-07, 18:16
HI


I don't know about anyone else but I have exhausted all I can on this family.

Apart from communicating with Marion Polk Smith himself from the grave to ask him who his father is and where he is buried.

Sorry,

KiteRunner
06-12-07, 18:29
Chris, did you try contacting that person via ancestry (I sent you the email address in a PM - hope it reached you?)
And have you ordered a copy of Jessie Ragsdale's death certificate?
And contacted the people who look after the cemetery where Marion is supposed to be buried to ask if they can help you find his grave?

I can't really think of anything else to try until you have tried those ideas out.

Chrissmith1980
07-12-07, 14:33
Yes i emailed the the person but never got a reply.If I could track down clemmie kids kids maybe they would know something but its hard to do that

brenmac
07-12-07, 17:00
chris have you looked on the lds site i found a lot of mine there brenda xxx

Chrissmith1980
08-12-07, 02:25
what site is that?

KiteRunner
08-12-07, 13:09
This is the site, Chris:

FamilySearch.org - Family History and Genealogy Records (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/default.asp)

Chrissmith1980
14-12-07, 01:58
Hey could you give me the address to the people on the site that you said had mooses in there family treee and marion ?

Chrissmith1980
14-12-07, 23:41
Hmm there was thsi woman we talk to that said she was related to us some way but not sure how and her dad name was marion guy smith and on ancestery i only see him one time wondering if anyone could help me out on this to see if how he was related to marion polk smith because its weird him haein the same name as my great gradfather that died in 2002

KiteRunner
14-12-07, 23:47
Chris, I sent you a couple of PM's with contact details for the people who had Moses in their trees, hope you got them.

I might not have time to look for Marion Guy Smith for a couple of days what with Christmas shopping and everything, but maybe some time next week.

KiteRunner
17-12-07, 14:46
Sorry, Chris, but the only entry I can see for a Marion Guy Smith on ancestry is in the WW1 draft registration cards and my sub doesn't allow me to look at those so I don't know what it says on it, but anyway, if his middle name isn't given on the censuses then I don't think I would be able to pick him out from all the other Marion Smiths. Perhaps you could contact the person who was related to him and get more info from them?

WendyP
17-12-07, 15:47
HI Chris

As KiteRunner has said, you need to speak to this woman again and ask her for some more info.


Maybe them someone can help further with your requests.

Chrissmith1980
18-12-07, 15:22
Thats all she new was her dad was marion guy smith and she was relatied to us some way.She is like 70 something now so you cant remember much

KiteRunner
18-12-07, 18:20
Chris, I wonder whether she might have a load of old documents stashed away in the loft or somewhere that might help?

Chrissmith1980
20-12-07, 14:33
I dont think so.Its weird tho that marion g dad on the 1910 as nocodia smith i thinkt hats how you spell it but anyways thats the only time you see him and no other time

KiteRunner
20-12-07, 14:53
Sorry, Chris, I've tried looking for Marion G Smith and for Nocodia Smith with or without Soundex on the 1910 census but I can't see the entry you mean. Searching for Nocodia Smith just comes up with "no matches" whatever I try and there seem to be no Marion G Smiths in Alabama and only one who was born in Alabama but doesn't seem to have his father with him? If you can give me another clue to find them in 1910 perhaps I can start from that.

Chrissmith1980
21-12-07, 00:36
My thing for ancestery ran out
but if you seach for marion g smith in Chambers county Alabama you should find it on there i think he was 11 in 1910

KiteRunner
21-12-07, 12:21
The only one I can see with a name anything like that and age 11 in Chambers on the 1910 is listed as "Marin Smith" with T F Smith 32 Ina Smith 35 Howard Smith 23 and Mary Rodger 76. Nothing like the name you said it gave for his father? (Nocodia) I haven't got a sub for the US stuff on there either so I can only go by what it says if I do a free search. The free search for the 1900 census doesn't seem to tell me who else is in the household, and I can't see any of them except Howard on that one! But I'm not sure if that is the right family anyway? Did you print it out or note down all the details while you had a subscription?

WendyP
21-12-07, 13:36
HI

As I can't make out his name myself hopefully here is a small snipet

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n201/winston1970/1910.jpg



Here is the 1910 that Chris referrred to Pearson Cross Roads, Chambers Alabama


N***** T Smith 39 Alabama Occ Farmer Male
Lou E Smith 29 Alabama Female
John W Smith 17 Alabama Male
Mattie P Smith 16 Alabama Female
Charles E Smith 13 Alabama Male
Marrion G Smith 7 Alabama Male
Annie K Smith 9 Alabama Female
Walter M Smith 5 Alabama Male
Grady E Smith 5mths Alabama Male


On it they state that they have been married for 18 years and Lou* has had 9 children and only 7 of those are still alive at time of census.






1920 They are in East Point, Georgia

N***** T Smith 48 Widow
John W Smith 25
Anna Kate Smith 17
Walter M Smith 14
Grady E Smith 10
***** Smith

In the same household
There is an Italian Gent and his wife who is also down as N***** daughter she goes by the name of Pearl M Smith bn 1898 Alabama. I can't see her at first glance in the 1910 census.

Thinking about it maybe Mattie P is Pearl M with a few years knocked off by the time of the 1920.


Cant see Marrion G Smith yet in the 1920 census or even the 1930.

Chrissmith1980
21-12-07, 14:58
So there is noway to find out N***** T Smith dad ?

Chrissmith1980
21-12-07, 15:02
Oh and where it says East point Thats should be West point because i know the place and live 5 min from it

Merry Monty Montgomery
21-12-07, 15:07
So there is noway to find out N***** T Smith dad ?


Is this him on the 1880 US census on Family Search?

Name Relation Marital Status Race Age Birthplace Occ Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace

Sam SMITH Self M W 40 MD Farmer MD PA
M. S. SMITH Wife M W 37 SC Keeping House SC SC
S. E. SMITH Dau S W 12 AL MD SC
Nicodemas SMITH Son S W 10 AL Assists On Farm MD SC <<<<<<<
Francis SMITH Dau S W 9 AL MD SC
J. G. SMITH Son S W 7 AL MD SC
William E. SMITH Son S W 2 AL MD SC

Living at Hills, Marengo, Alabama

Chrissmith1980
21-12-07, 15:27
is that someone family tree ? Do they have a contact? eamil?

Merry Monty Montgomery
21-12-07, 15:34
No, it's from the 1880 US census.

Heather Positive Thinker
21-12-07, 23:07
What a brilliant job you lot have done - I dont know how you manage to find all this particularly when its the other side of the atlantic and so few people have the US records. Well done everyone!!