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cbcarolyn
13-10-19, 21:59
James Ashwell 1796-4th great-grandfather was sentenced to life for stealing a pig, I have found a few newspaper records over the years, but not sure how I can prove any of them to be my James Ashwell. Are there any records that I should be looking at?

There is another James Ashwell around at the same time just to confuse things

His wife Mary moved to Lincolnshire and remarried, I wonder if she knew whether he had died or just presumed.

I have made a note "On 12 Oct 1836 the record states he was given a conditional pardon" I think this was from a newspaper, which I can't find now, but am not sure if it is my James.

I have the records from Bedford
" Record ID:3173 Commital Year:1823 Reference Doc:BLARS QGV10/1 ID in Reference Doc:86 Age:27 Gender:Male Height:5 feet 5 inches Hair Colour:Light Brown Complexion:Fresh Identifying Features:This man was a notorious character and a terror to the neighbourhood he lived in. Residence(town/village):Langford Residence(county):Bedfordshire Offence:Stealing Pork Committed By:Rev.J.Webster When Committed:30/12/1823 Trial Type:Lent Assizes 1824 Type of Gaol:Bedford County Gaol Sentence:Death Transported for Life How Disposed:Removed to the Justitia Hulk at Woolwich Discharge Date:24/04/1824 General Remarks on Prisoner:A bad fellow "

and the arrival:
Birth 1796
28yo at 1824-11
Place Of Birth Langford/Bedford


1824-03-10
Conviction Sentence Life
Place Of Sentencing
Bedford Tried Date 10/Mar/1824


1824-07-09
Sailed Days 123
Ship Name
Princess Charlotte
Arrived 1824-11-09
To Colony VDL
Transported For Burglary
Family
Wife & 3 Ch at Biggreswood
Trade
" {T: Frs Labr Ploughn}

Olde Crone Holden
13-10-19, 22:13
As an aside - the church allowed a remarriage where the spouse had been transported for seven years or more. I think permission had to be granted by the Archbishop, but usually was if the abandoned wife was a charge on the poor rates!

OC

Elaine
13-10-19, 22:22
Found this timeline which has ticket of leave 7th November 1832

https://www.digitalpanopticon.org/life?id=fasai01679

Elaine
13-10-19, 22:27
12 Oct 1836 is on his ticket of leave

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=ANZ%2FTASCONVICTRECS%2F001679

cbcarolyn
13-10-19, 23:10
As an aside - the church allowed a remarriage where the spouse had been transported for seven years or more. I think permission had to be granted by the Archbishop, but usually was if the abandoned wife was a charge on the poor rates!

OC
That is useful to know, I haven't paid much attention to her remarriage, but think I have her in 1841 census with a new man, will investigate her further - I must have done this years ago, so maybe something more on her.


Found this timeline which has ticket of leave 7th November 1832

https://www.digitalpanopticon.org/life?id=fasai01679

not sure why it says that date, I can't see it on document.


12 Oct 1836 is on his ticket of leave

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=ANZ%2FTASCONVICTRECS%2F001679

How silly am I, I had seen that years ago and not saved it, just looked at the transcript on FMP this evening - but didn't click through to image - thank you that answers where I got the date from and that it is definitely him.

I am sure I found a death record, but wondering if I was never sure it was him so not saved it.

Chrissie Smiff
14-10-19, 08:25
Had you perhaps seen this death that is suggest which is linked to that second ticket of leave and possibly rejected it because of the birth year and age? -
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=ANZ/BMD/NSW/D/0006431116

thomasalbertedward
14-10-19, 09:14
This is from Trove - the Colonial Times Newspaper - 13th November 1832 - list of convicts granted tickets of leave, including James Ashwell

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8646760?searchTerm=%22james%20ashwell%22&searchLimits=l-decade=183

and conditional pardon - 19th April 1839 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4158810?searchTerm=%22james%20ashwell%22&searchLimits=l-decade=183

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 09:20
the birth does seem way out, his birth has been quite consistent throughout. I have only just subscribed to fmp so still finding my way around it, how/where is it linked?

This is where I originally found the record, realised i noted the link but not the document
http://foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch/convict/chain/c31a31010199

vague recollection of the Hobart news, but I might have seen it on another tree.

Chrissie Smiff
14-10-19, 09:34
If you click Elaine's link on reply 4# and scroll down you will see a box edged red that says Is this the same person? Then if you click on the box it comes up. It's like Ancestry hints, probably some are good and some not.

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 09:48
This is from Trove - the Colonial Times Newspaper - 13th November 1832 - list of convicts granted tickets of leave, including James Ashwell

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/8646760?searchTerm=%22james%20ashwell%22&searchLimits=l-decade=183

and conditional pardon - 19th April 1839 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4158810?searchTerm=%22james%20ashwell%22&searchLimits=l-decade=183

the 1832 ties up with the first link from Elaine, i wish they put an age :) pretty sure i found another with same name sometime ago, need a way to add people to a tree that are not right!

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 10:02
Had you perhaps seen this death that is suggest which is linked to that second ticket of leave and possibly rejected it because of the birth year and age? -
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=ANZ/BMD/NSW/D/0006431116
i see it now, thank you, not sure i like it for him seems way out and too young, he must have looked quite old if anyone was guessing :) Just no way of telling :(

Chrissie Smiff
14-10-19, 10:09
I have just trawled the GRO deaths and if he came back to England the only two that are no more that two years out are these -
ASHWELL, JAMES 67 GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Volume 03B Page 214

ASHWELL, JAMES 85 GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in WOODBRIDGE Volume 04A Page 451

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 10:21
i have not traced the other one on here
20309

so he could be one of them, although just been searching on fmp and can't find records of him arriving, so maybe he never survived.

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 10:23
I have just trawled the GRO deaths and if he came back to England the only two that are no more that two years out are these -
ASHWELL, JAMES 67 GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Volume 03B Page 214

ASHWELL, JAMES 85 GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in WOODBRIDGE Volume 04A Page 451
thanks chrissie, i will have to see if they appear in census previously to give clues. I will have to read up on subject, do they ever return home? wondering if they can afford the ticket.

Katarzyna
14-10-19, 11:07
the 1832 ties up with the first link from Elaine, i wish they put an age :) pretty sure i found another with same name sometime ago, need a way to add people to a tree that are not right!
You can do that Carolyn 2 ways.
1)Add a fictious person to anyone in your tree: save then go to that person's profile page - edit- edit relationships to unlink them.
2)Or if you have a document - save it to "someone in your tree" and + add this as a new person

20310

I have several 'floaters' but always add a * after the first name, not the surname, to find it easier later.

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 11:54
I have just trawled the GRO deaths and if he came back to England the only two that are no more that two years out are these -
ASHWELL, JAMES 67 GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in BIGGLESWADE Volume 03B Page 214

ASHWELL, JAMES 85 GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in WOODBRIDGE Volume 04A Page 451

I think the first refers to one in Moggerhanger, with wife Elizabeth and daughter Rachel, although at quick glance can't find 1861 census, but have others and a burial transcription that ties in with dates.

There is a James Ashwell living in Suffolk that ties in with his records...the death age being mistranscribed in Ancestry which fooled me initially!

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 11:57
You can do that Carolyn 2 ways.
1)Add a fictious person to anyone in your tree: save then go to that person's profile page - edit- edit relationships to unlink them.
2)Or if you have a document - save it to "someone in your tree" and + add this as a new person

20310

I have several 'floaters' but always add a * after the first name, not the surname, to find it easier later.
I do have test trees like that, but never thought about including it in my own tree - good idea. could have my own set of codes like "maybe mine but no link found" and "definitely not mine"

Oakum Picker
14-10-19, 13:14
Not saying it didn't happen, but the conditional part of a lifer's pardon was that he did not return to this country but he could go anywhere else in the world. His pardon should show this as it was a standard document with just names & dates written in.

cbcarolyn
14-10-19, 15:13
that is good to know, probably not worth searching in UK then. But could be anywhere!