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brentor boy
22-06-19, 07:06
According to the Cornwall OPC site, JBH was baptised on 26 Sept 1847 at Manaccan, the son of John and Mary Anne. His parents, John Nichols and Mary Anne Nicholls were married at Mylor on 26 Oct 1840. When JBH enlisted in the Royal Navy he gave his date of birth as 20 Sept 1848.

I have been unable to find an entry on either Free BMD or GRO Index that appears to be the registration of his birth. (His mother was not previously married, so no problems with mmn). Can anyone see some thing I have missed?

Olde Crone Holden
22-06-19, 10:16
Perhaps his birth wasn't registered. There was no penalty before 1874. Were his siblings registered?

OC

Janet in Yorkshire
22-06-19, 12:44
Does he give Manaccan as his place of birth in census? If not, which place is given? ? Were siblings baptised at Manaccan? What was mother's maiden name?
(Have to go out now, but will try to look in again this evening.)

Jay

Sylvia C
22-06-19, 18:05
My grandfather gave his birth date as December 25 for as long as I knew him. The year varied from 1884 to 1886 depending on what he thought. His WW1 conscription form gives an age that indicate a birth date of December 25 1884.

Nope ...... he was born January 9 1885. I have found a Private Baptism record for what might be him for January 25 1885.

Not only that, he lied about his age on his marriage .......... the certificate says he was 19 when he was only 17. His wife said she was 20 when she was 19.


Moral ............. people were not as concerned about birth dates as we now are. I believe than my gt grandparents told grandfather that his birthday was December 25 because it saved buying presents.

In your case, it could well be an honest mistake in the year.

If he was baptised on September 26, then he could well have been born on September 20.

Sylvia C
22-06-19, 18:13
FreeReg actually gives his baptism as 20 September 1847

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817eb5ee93790ec8b656931/james-pashbee-nicholls-baptism-cornwall-manaccan-1847-09-20?locale=en

I wonder if that is a mistake by the transcriber??

However England Births and Baptisms 1538-1975 on FindMyPast also gives 20 September as the Baptism date

https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=R_955434555

In fact, Cornwall Baptisms on FMP gives the same 20 September.


It is just a niggle about the day.

Chrissie Smiff
22-06-19, 19:15
It's a long shot I know but possibly worth checking for misspelling of names? Helston covers Manaccan too.
NICHOLAS, - MALE - MMN NICHOLAS
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in HELSTON Volume 09 Page 133

Elizabeth Herts
22-06-19, 19:38
Here is the baptism on Family Search:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-67Y3-D8P?i=1257&cc=1769414&cat=44009

If you don't have one already, you need to create an account (free) and password.

I think his baptismal date is the 20th because if you go back a page the previous baptism was on the 19th.

Elizabeth Herts
22-06-19, 19:40
The only thing I would say is that the Pashbee part isn't very clear and could be spelled differently.

Olde Crone Holden
22-06-19, 19:51
His mother's sister married a James Pashbee, so that is probably where the name came from. But Pashbee is a very rare name, so it was probably something else originally - Ashbee, perhaps.

OC

brentor boy
22-06-19, 21:30
Thank you, all who have contributed.

I was hoping that a birth certificate might include some little additional information that could provide a clue as to why the child was named James Pashbee. The "original" James Pashbee married Elizabeth Nicholls, sister of Mary Ann, in 1843. It seems unusual to name a child after a brother-in-law - unless he was more than a brother-inlaw!

In 1851 James "Poshbee" (Nicholls), aged three was in the household of his aunt, Elizabeth "Poshbee" as a visitor, living in Portsea.

Interestingly the name was passed down a generation. Philliphia E Nicholls, b c 1849/50, Mayo, daughter of John and Mary Ann Nicholls, married James Lyden in Killala, Mayo in 1868. Their son, James Pasbee Lyden was baptised in Reculver, Kent, in 1874.

All very strange.

Olde Crone Holden
22-06-19, 21:41
There is also a James Pashbee Flinn who may be related.

I don't see anything odd about sucking up to your brother in law, lol! Many of my relatives were named after other relatives and to me it just means they were either a godparent or that they had done some favour that warranted the reward of a namesake.

OC

Sylvia C
22-06-19, 21:48
At one time it was relatively common to give a child the name of a relation if one was going to ask that person to be a godfather or godmother, and hoped that would lead to some monetary or other help to the child in its future life.

Could that be the reason here?? If James Pashbee owned a business of had money, or if he had helped John and Mary Anne to get married (ie, if parents had objected), then they might have considered "honouring" him by giving the child his name.

I don't imagine that the birth certificate would give any more reason why the name was given!

If it was possible to get hold of a baptism certificate, then you might find that James Pashbee was one of the Godfathers ............ but I think it is pretty hard to do that. I do have my own baptism certificate, but it does not have the names of my godparents on there, and I only know of 2 of them. The names are not usually shown on the Parish register either.

Sylvia C
22-06-19, 21:53
Snap, OC!!

We both had the same idea :D

Sylvia C
22-06-19, 22:05
I looked at the record on FreeReg for their marriage, and James Pashbee was not a witness ............ so that rules out that thought!

The witnesses were George Nicholls and Jane Nicholls

Interestingly, the transcriber made a note that they were married on a Tuesday.

Sylvia C
22-06-19, 23:08
I assume that you have seen the following ...........

https://www.coastguardsofyesteryear.org/articles.php?article_id=297&c_start=-10

Sylvia C
23-06-19, 00:03
FWIW .....

from FreeReg

........ a James Pasbee was baptised 7 Dec 1806, son of Samuel Pasbee and his wife Sarah, St Anthony in Roseland, St Anthony

James Pashbee married Maria Sarah 22 June 1831, King Charles the Martyr, Falmouth. He was a Bachelor and a Common Seaman

In 1841, James Pashber, age 35, b. ca 1806, is living in Falmouth with Sarah Pashber, age 70 b.ca 1771, and 1 young female servant. Occupation Sailmaker. Address:- High Street, Penrhyn, Falmouth

In 1841, Maria died, age 46, buried 19 May 1841, St Gluvias the Martyr, St Gluvias

In 1843, James Pashbee married Elizabeth Nicholls, occupation Mariner, Widower

In 1851, Elizabeth says she is Married, Mariner's Wife

In 1861, a possible sighting for Elizabeth says she is a Widow

In 1857, there is a death registration for a James Pashby, registered Hull, September quarter

OR a death registered in Portsea for a James Pashbee, June quarter 1860


James does not seem to have had any children either with Maria or with Elizabeth, and maybe that is why James Pashbee Nicholls was given his name ............. especially if James senior was close friends with John Nicholls.


Samuel Pashbee married Sarah Gardner 2 January 1806, St Anthony in Roseland, St Anthony

Samuel Pashbee was buried 29 December 1817, King Charles the Martyr, Falmouth, age 52

Sylvia C
23-06-19, 00:04
I would suggest there were no ulterior motives, nor any shady goings-on such as you have suggested earlier on this thread or on another site that you have posted on recently!

cbcarolyn
23-06-19, 00:33
odd that there is no trace of registration, but as his father was away his baptism could be a year after his birth, or in fact a number of reasons. Also he could have been registered elsewhere, although no trace of any obvious candidates.

Sylvia C
23-06-19, 04:00
Carolyn ............

a lot of babies were not registered before about mid-1875.

Registration was set up in 1837 for the Registrar to go round and find out about births and to register them, and the Registrars just couldn't find all new babies.

The law was changed in mid-1975 (I think) so that the mother was made responsible for registering a birth within 6 weeks of the event.

brentor boy
23-06-19, 07:31
Thanks to all for your interesting and informative comments and contributions.

My direct connection is with George Gardener Pashbee, b 1810, brother of James. I got sidetracked onto James about whom there is a wealth of material on-line on his life in both the Merchant and Royal Navy. Quite a character.

I think I now have all I need on both brothers so I am withdrawing from this conversation. If you to wish to carry on talking amongst yourselves, please be my guest!