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GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 00:50
Hello all,

I am new and my very first post.

My Grandfather (I never met) Robert Park born 1905 Aberdeen Scotland came to Australia and married Mary Skeoch. He passed away 15 Aug 1948.

His father - John Park born Aberdeen about 1877, died 22nd August 1952 in Aberdeen and was married to Williamina Milne Christie. On their wedding certificate I can see that John's parents was a Robert Park and an Annie Horniblow?? (I think, it is very hard to read)

I cannot find this Robert Park and I can certainly not find Annie. I presume their date of birth would be around 1850 and although I have always thought that Park line were all from Scotland, perhaps they aren't Scottish at all.

Any help very much appreciated to get me back on track with my Dad's side of my tree.

Thanks

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 01:03
It looks as though you were correct ..............

from Freebmd, a free site for England and Wales

Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
Edmonds Eustace Droitwich 6c 717
>>>>>>>>>Horniblow Ann Droitwich 6c 717
>>>>>>>>>Park Robert Droitwich 6c 717
Proudfoot Elizabeth Amelia Droitwich 6c 717

Droitwich is in the English county of Worcestershire

I'll have to check further to be sure that Robert did marry Ann as this record just shows the names of the two couples not who married who.

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 01:08
Hi Sylvia,

Thank you! You were so quick.

Kind regards
Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 01:13
The marriage is on FreeReg

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58187db8e93790eb7fecd484/anne-honiblow-robert-park-marriage-worcestershire-claines-1865-11-20?locale=en

Anne's name misspelled as Honiblow

Married 20 Nov 1865

Robert's father Robert Park a Farmer; Anne's father Samuel, a Labourer

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 01:13
Have to go, will be back in ca 1 hour to see what else I can find

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 01:15
Hi Sylvia,

That is awesome. Thank you so much for your quick help.

This information will get me back on track.

Thank you so much!

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 02:46
To add further information from the Marriage/Banns that might help in searching .......

Marriage took place at St John the Baptist, Claines, Worcestershire

Robert was 24, Bachelor, Coach-man, Father Robert, a Farmer
Anne was 27, Spinster, Father Samuel, a Labourer

Both gave their address as Chestnut Terrace, ?Claines

Witnesses:- Frederick Turvey and Sarah Howton Pugh

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 02:56
Ann's surname is subject to spelling variations/errors!!

This is her on the 1851 Census, with her parents and sister

from Ancestry ..........

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=wde114&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=8860&gsfn=ann*&gsln=ho*blow&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&msbdy=1835&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=5&msbpn__ftp=worcestershire&msbpn__ftp_x=1&qh=5a4eC97cbWyQPuBBFMpa7w%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=a72&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=8996892&recoff=&ml_rpos=1


Samuel Horneblow 52 b.ca 1799, Throckmorton, Worcestershire, Agricultural labourer
Sarah Horneblow 50 b.ca 1801, Rock, Worcestershire
Ann Horneblow 13 b.ca 1838, Throckmorton
Eliza Horneblow 11 b.ca 1840, Throckmorton


it's even worse in 1841, although it has been corrected by an Ancestry member

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=wde115&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=8978&gsfn=ann*&gsln=ho*blow&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&msbdy=1835&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=5&msbpn__ftp=worcestershire&msbpn__ftp_x=1&qh=5a4eC97cbWyQPuBBFMpa7w%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=a72&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=11491711&recoff=&ml_rpos=1


Samuel Harniblone 40 Ag Lab
Sarah Harniblone 40
James Harniblone 10
Ann Harniblone 3
Eliza Harniblone 1

?? Samuel's Mother Ann Horniblow 83 is living in the same house but separate from the family

All living in Throckmorton, Worcestershire

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 03:06
This is her birth registration from the GRO Index, which gives the mother's maiden name (mmn) ........

Horneblow, Ann mmn Hill
GRO Reference: 1838 M Quarter in PERSHORE UNION Volume 18 Page 393

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 03:06
Wow Sylvia!

That is so great!

I am trying to look for both where Anne and Robert were born, makes it a little difficult with these spellings!

I will keep working on it, it's a cold day outside anyway :)

Thank you.

Glenys

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 03:07
Just read your above reply.

Thank you so much!

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 03:07
I will warn you that there are 2 family trees on Ancestry that have Ann Horniblow, and what looks like her parents, BUT they have her married to the wrong person. I've checked that out as much as I can!!

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 03:18
I can't find Ann in 1861, she's is not with her parents.

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 03:20
I'm now looking for Robert Park

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 03:25
Thanks Sylvia,

I am looking at all the leads you are giving me now.

Here I am thinking Honiblow would be easier to search. Very interesting all the spellings.

I will be careful with the Ancestry trees.

Cheers
Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 03:29
This does NOT seem to be your Robert Park although it is the only one to come up on Ancestry ......... the occupations of father and son are wrong. I'm posting so it will not confuse you or others as yous earch,

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=wde120&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=8767&gsfn=robert&gsln=park&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&msfng=robert&msfng_x=1&msfns_x=1&msbdy=1840&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=2&msbpn__ftp=england,%20united%20kingdom&msbpn__ftp_x=1&msbpn=3251&msbpn_x=1&qh=ubBSC2O8PaqjUfwFFH/UUg%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=a72&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=12905697&recoff=&ml_rpos=1

1861 Census
Robert Park 62 b.ca 1799, Newbiggin, Northumbrland, Stone Mason
Ann Park 57
Robert Park 23 b.ca 1838, Preston, Northumberland, House Painter

Living in Chirdon, Northumberland

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 03:36
Thanks I will not use that Robert Park as mine seem to be into horses as per the below wedding cert of his son John.

https://www.ancestry.com.au/mediaui-viewer/tree/153130089/person/152036781179/media/fa03b9e7-8801-4390-9509-cec657f50faf?usePUBJs=true

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 03:56
Glenys .............

Robert Park is a bit of a mystery!!

I can't find him for certain on any census to find his birth place. I can find one Robert Park born ca 1840, mother's name Mary Park. They're both on the 1841 and 1851 Censuses ............ at first she is unmarried and living with a John Crawford and his family in Sedbergh, Yorkshire. By 1851, John's wife has died, Mary Park has married him (in 1841) and had more children.

It looked hopefully, but then Robert Park has very different occupations than coach--man!!! And John Crawford was not a farmer.


I was intrigued because OH has Park as one of his ancestral names, and they come from the Sedbergh area as well as spreading into Westmorland and Cumberland; Robert is a common name in the family, and they tend to be farmers and millers. BUT I cannot see any connection.

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 04:09
That is great work!

I am in my mind still wondering about Scotland. I know he married to Anne in England but did he travel to marry her???

The only reason why I am wondering is because I saw this Census, which has him placed back in Scotland for his birth.

https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=26277228

and it says he is a coachman, which shows on John's marriage certificate.

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 04:30
He could have moved to England for work, or with his employer, and met Annie then.

I've been trying to find a Scottish census with any of them on, and can't!

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 04:40
Okay so it seems that John may of moved back to Scotland at some point before marrying Williamina. I can't find a birth cert for John, however, it seems from the above census that he must of been born in England along with his brothers.

Thanks Sylvia, you are a gem.

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 04:40
Which census did you find him on born in Scotland, living in England and a coachman?

I don't have Ancestry.com.au, just .co.uk, and I can't find it

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 04:56
Hi Sylvia,

I have the census in England which places John in England living with Robert and Annie

https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=26277228

also his marriage certificate to Williamina Christie in Aberdeen Scotland

https://www.ancestry.com.au/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/153130089/person/152036781179/media/fa03b9e7-8801-4390-9509-cec657f50faf?_phsrc=eRz12762&usePUBJs=true

Oh sorry, this is from Ancestry.com.au. I don't know how to get this to you any other way. (Not great on computer)

Glenys Ill try and download onto computer and send it.

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 05:01
Well, I've found John Park with father Robert a coachman and mother Annie on the 1891 Census. It says John was born in Scotland, but they're living at Levens, near Kendal in Westmorland

1891 Census
Robert Park 55
Annie Park 51 b.ca 1840, Worcestershire
Robert H Park 24 b.ca 1867, Scotland
John Park 12 b.ca 1879, Scotland
James Park 10 b.ca 1881, Scotland



I do wish we could find John's birth certificate to find out if this is the correct one.

It's right in the centre of where OH's Parks lived!!

But it looks as though Robert moved back and forth as he found places to work!

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 05:02
Glenys .........

it's OK, I've managed to find the census. Thank you.

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 05:10
Oh fantastic!!

So the "Park" side seems to be Scottish but the Honiblow is English. That is a great breakthrough.

Sorry but what are you referring to when you say OH Park. Who is that?

I also presumed Robert might be a bit of a traveller too.

This is so great Sylvia.

I can tell my Dad a lot of information today, as when I asked him, he said it was a mystery in the family and that he knew nothing beyond his own dad who died at the age of approximately 42 years old.

Also, moving countries, disconnects the family too, to a lot of information.

Cheers
Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 05:18
I've managed to find some baptisms on FindMyPast

Robert Horniblow Park, born 1866, Lanark, Lanarkshire in 1866. Parents Robert Park and Ann Horniblow

George Alexander Park born 1867, baptised Lanark. Parents Robert Park and Annie Horniblow

Henry Rawlinson Park, born 1869, baptised Lanark. Parents Robert Park and Ann

Frederick William Park was born 1873, baptised Lanark. Parents Robert Park and Ann Horniblow

Those are the only 3 showing up with Horniblow

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 05:18
Glenys ............

OH means Other Half ............. so my husband has Parks in his ancestry!

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 05:29
Oh your other half has Park's! What a coincidence is that!!

I am surprised by those baptisms as other than Robert H Park the other names do not appear in that 1891 census at all, and also John and James are missing? The plot thickens.

Thanks Sylvia

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 05:48
Bit of a break through!!

from ancestry

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=wde137&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=1104&gsfn=robert%20h&gsln=park&cp=11&msfng=robert&msfng_x=1&msfns_x=1&msmng=ann*&msmng_x=1&msmns_x=1&msbdy=1866&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=2&msbpn__ftp=scotland,%20united%20kingdom&msbpn__ftp_x=1&msbpn=3252&msbpn_x=1&qh=PEgxR7J5OTxGh7wORuLtPQ%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=a72&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=2445032&recoff=&ml_rpos=1

1871 Scottish Census

Name Age
Robert Park 34 b.ca 1837, New Deer, Aberdeen, Coachman
Ann Park 31 b.ca 1849, England
Robert Park 4 b.ca 1867, Lanark
George A Park 3 b.ca 1868, Lanark
Henry B W Park 1 b.ca 1870, Lanark

Address:- Brafield Coachman (Gourg???)


The full transcript (but not the image) can be seen on FindMyPast, and it looks as if Robert is Coachman for Thomas Dobie, Farmer of 7 acres, although I'm guessing here, as the Dobies address is Whitehill, It would help to be able to see the image!!

and they live in the Braefield Coachman House (!!!)


Then there is a wonderful mistranscription of Horniblow in Robert Jrs. name

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=wde138&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=1119&gsfn=robert%20h&gsln=park&cp=11&msfng=robert&msfng_x=1&msfns_x=1&msmng=ann*&msmng_x=1&msmns_x=1&msbdy=1866&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=2&msbpn__ftp=scotland,%20united%20kingdom&msbpn__ftp_x=1&msbpn=3252&msbpn_x=1&qh=PEgxR7J5OTxGh7wORuLtPQ%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=a72&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=1521854&recoff=&ml_rpos=1

1881 Scotland Census

Name Age
Robert Park 45 b.ca 1836, New Deer, Aberdeenshire, Coachman Domestic
Annie Park 41 b.ca 1840, England
Robert Hornibbon Park 14
H R W Park 11
Frederic W Park 9 b.ca 1872, Lanark
Charels W Park 6 b.ca 1875, Lanark
John Park 2 b.ca 1879, Lanark
James Park 4 Months b.ca 1881, Lanark

Address:- Braxfeild (that's what it says)



Note that Robert is now older than Ann, although he was younger on the marriage.

I think George might have died

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 05:57
Oh wow! I cannot thank you enough Sylvia.

That is amazing and I will now get to work putting the rest of the bits and pieces together.

Soooo am I your other halfs relative????

Kind regards
Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 06:11
In 1901, Robert Park, Coachman Domestic, is a visitor with George Fowlie and family in New Deer.

It's possible that Ann Park died in 1896, registered in Kendal


According to a tree on Ancestry, George Alexander Park was killed in action in 1918 .... that should be easy to trace

Robert Horniblow Park also became a Domestic Coachman, and seems to have stayed in the Levens/Kendal area.


That's me done!!! It's bedtime here :D


Good luck.

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 06:13
Oh wow! I cannot thank you enough Sylvia.

That is amazing and I will now get to work putting the rest of the bits and pieces together.

Soooo am I your other halfs relative????

Kind regards
Glenys



Glenys .......... I enjoyed doing it.

I don't think there is a connection , just coincidence.

Though it might be interesting to get far enough back to find out when a Park went to Scotland, and where from in England.

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 06:15
Thank you and big thank you Sylvia.

I did wonder if you ever went to sleep :rotfl:

That is amazing and I do have a lot to tell my family.

I am so happy now!

Goodnight!

Glenys

Sylvia C
21-06-19, 06:37
Glenys ..........

I'm on the west coast of Canada, so it is "only" 10:30 pm here :D

You're very welcome, I'm glad I could help

Janet in Yorkshire
21-06-19, 07:56
Here is the probate reference for Robert Horniblow Park died Lancashire 1955

(It came up as an Ancestry hit when I clicked on Sylvia's link to the 1871(?) census - also a reference to his marriage and other bits)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1904/32858_606246_2071-00155?pid=13447411&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D1904%26h%3D13447411%26indiv%3Dtry%2 6o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D1119&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.57127146.1712919133.1561029052-1817650848.1555922208&_gac=1.11857792.1558426962.EAIaIQobChMI3NiI55is4gI VyIbVCh2ArwQSEAAYAyAAEgLDs_D_BwE

Jay

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 14:54
Thanks Jay,

Thats him!

I appreciate you sending that through :)

Kind regards
Glenys

GallowayLass
21-06-19, 15:14
Coming to this a bit late as have been busy this morning. Taking up from the birth in New Deer on the 1881 census and the fact that Robert appears to have altered his age a bit, I checked on ScotlandsPeople for a baptism of PARK, Robert in Aberdeenshire, New Deer 1830 - 1840 and found only one match. If you register with SP and purchase some credits (if you haven't already), you will get the original parish register image which you can download to keep.

20133

GallowayLass
21-06-19, 15:22
Other baptisms to the same couple

20134

GallowayLass
21-06-19, 15:32
I have checked familysearch.org main records and the IGI and also ScotlandsPeople and can't find a marriage for Robert PARK to Agnes FORMAN. I tried with her surname (and variants) and also her forename as separate searches but didn't find anything.

GallowayLass
21-06-19, 15:53
Have found the family in 1841 census in New Deer. This matches the couple and the first three children on the baptisms in post #39. Shevado is a farm about three miles north of the village of New Deer.

Name: Robert Park
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: New Deer
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Croft On Shevado, New Deer (transcript says Croft On Sheva On Artamford)
Occupation: Ag Lab (transcript says Aug Lab)
Parish Number: 225
Household Members:
Robert Park 35
Agnes Park 35
Agnes Park 8
Robert Park 7
Mary Park 3
Source Citation: Parish: New Deer; ED: 6; Page: 4; Line: 710; Year: 1841

GallowayLass
21-06-19, 16:41
Here is the same family in 1861, still in New Deer area and with a puzzle of an elderly relative!

Name: Robert Park
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Relationship: Head
Spouse: Agnes Park
Gender: Male
Where born: New Deer, Aberdeenshire
Parish Number: 225
Civil Parish: New Deer
Town: District of Artamford
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Pundlercroft
Occupation: Ag Labourer
ED: 4
Page: 18
Household schedule number: 56
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1851_49
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Park 46
Agnes Park 46
Agnes Park 18
Mary Park 12
William Park 9
Margt Willox or Park 74 (mother in law) Knitter. Born c.1777 Strichen
Source Citation: Parish: New Deer; ED: 4; Page: 18; Line: 1; Roll: CSSCT1851_49; Year: 1851


I have found a baptism of a Margaret Willox in Aberdeen 1771
Parents
WILLIAM WILLOX/MARGARET HENDERSON FR2861 (FR2861) Gender
F Date
03/06/1771 Parish Number
168/A Ref
80 662 Parish
Aberdeen

This is the only match for a person of that name in Aberdeenshire.
Not sure why she should be listed as mother in law if she was Margaret PARK or WILLOX, I would have thought she should be “mother”. Unless of course she had been married before or really is Agnes Forman’s mother...?

There is a marriage of Margaret WILLOX to John PARK in Lonmay which is in the Buchan area right enough but it can’t be the right one as the date is 3 January 1841. There are three children to that couple between 1841 and 1854 so definitely not her! Haven't found any other marriages to a PARK or a FOR(E)MAN.

I would try the local family history society next to see if there are any MIs in New Deer to match this family.

GallowayLass
21-06-19, 16:48
Ah! Now this might solve who's mother Margaret was. Cooking on gas now! LOL

PARK, ROBERT 77 1881 225/ 76 New Deer

PARK or FORMAN, AGNES 93 1896 225/ 31 New Deer

GlenysFlegg
21-06-19, 23:51
Hello Galloway Lass,

Just woke up to all these wonderful messages!

I can't thank you enough for all your work!

I will put them all together a bit later today, I am off to have lunch with my Aunt, so I will be able to happily give her all this information, she will be extremely happy as most of this information has not been passed down especially to the ones that moved out of the country.

Great job!

Kind regards
Glenys

GallowayLass
22-06-19, 09:59
An addition to the family. In the image with the baptisms in post #39, I had redacted this one as the mother’s maiden surname was FORBES and not FOR(E)MAN. However there is a 9 year old son William in the 1851 census born New Deer. The baptism below is the only fit. Perhaps poor handwriting in the register? This man died in 1912 in Anderston (Glasgow) if the ancestry hints are correct so you can check his death certificate to see if his mother was actually Agnes Forman.
He appears in ancestry public trees.

Surname PARK
Forename William
Parents/ Other Details ROBERT PARK/AGNES FORBES
Gender M
Date 02/03/1842
Parish Number 225/ Ref 30 112 Parish New Deer

GlenysFlegg
23-06-19, 06:30
Thank you Galloway Lass for your help,

I have been working all day today, so unable to look at this, but will do on my next days off :)

Kind regards
Glenys

GallowayLass
23-06-19, 12:15
You’re very welcome Glenys. Hope your family can have a get together. They will be fascinated by all you have to tell them.