PDA

View Full Version : Details of a death



Golden Oldie
02-04-19, 17:24
Hello
Is it possible to find any details of a suicide,not very nice I know. According to my friend her uncle committed suicide in 1963. She only got this through word of mouth, and I am doing her tree but can find nothing.
His name was Albert Muxlow born about 1929. The railway at Tottenham or Edmonton in London may have played a part.
If anyone could point me in some direction please
Thank you
Ann

Sylvia C
02-04-19, 18:12
The death certificate will give you the details.

It will cost £11 from GRO

Alternatively, a) search newspapers in the area for a report of either the death or the inquest, or b) access the newspaper collection on FMP to see if the relevant one(s) have been digitised.

Golden Oldie
02-04-19, 19:03
Thank you Sylvia.
I will see what newspaper was about then. I do not have FMP
regards
Ann

Val wish Id never started
02-04-19, 20:12
dont think you will find it in the newspapers on FMP, they dont go up to that year.

cbcarolyn
02-04-19, 23:16
I did a quick search in https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ and nothing in that era comes up for Muxlow. So either no paper on there yet, or wasn't in the papers. There are papers arriving all the time.

Golden Oldie
03-04-19, 11:21
Thank you all
Regards
Ann

Lin Fisher
03-04-19, 13:07
I have a few ancestors that have committed suicide and the death cert gives the details and as said above the newspapers. Mine were all a lot earlier than this but I found them all at the big library in Nottingham. This was before they were on FMP.

cbcarolyn
03-04-19, 15:27
Hello
Is it possible to find any details of a suicide,not very nice I know. According to my friend her uncle committed suicide in 1963. She only got this through word of mouth, and I am doing her tree but can find nothing.
His name was Albert Muxlow born about 1929. The railway at Tottenham or Edmonton in London may have played a part.
If anyone could point me in some direction please
Thank you
Ann
where was he living at the time?

Golden Oldie
04-04-19, 09:07
Carolyn he lived in Tottenham North London
Regards
Ann

Chrissie Smiff
04-04-19, 09:34
I can't find him on 1939 or find a birth record for him. What certificates led your friend to him?

Darksecretz
04-04-19, 10:40
The death certificate will give you the details.

It will cost £11 from GRO

Alternatively, a) search newspapers in the area for a report of either the death or the inquest, or b) access the newspaper collection on FMP to see if the relevant one(s) have been digitised.

or a £7 pdf would have the same info? [from GRO]

Anne in Carlisle
04-04-19, 10:44
Julie, the PDFs only go up to 1957. This was in 1963 according to the OP.
Anne

Darksecretz
04-04-19, 10:47
I can only see this death



Name: Albert E Muxlow
Death Age: 35
Birth Date: abt 1928
Registration Date: Jun 1963
Registration district: Edmonton
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 5e
Page: 267

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7579&h=35971244&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UJA7525&_phstart=successSource

Darksecretz
04-04-19, 10:49
Julie, the PDFs only go up to 1957. This was in 1963 according to the OP.
Anne

sorry Anne, not thinking straight oops

Golden Oldie
04-04-19, 17:28
That is his death. My friend had been told there was a suicide but no more
Albert had 2 surnames Murphy and Muxlow I have just found out, but used Muxlow most. He was illegitimate, his parents living together until they could marry when his first wife died.
All very complicated
Regards
Ann

Chrissie Smiff
04-04-19, 19:00
Got to dash now but have been doing a bit of research and I think Albert may have been born June 1927 in Islington. I have found Bertie's probate and war service records etc, which I assume you have. Will look more tomorrow if you haven't solved it by then.

Darksecretz
05-04-19, 08:45
Do you know if there are any 'local' papers to that area?

One of my grandfathers brothers took his own life but it wasn't in any big paper, it was in a local one. [and it went into detail too] the death cert did state that 'he poisoned himself by taking spirits of salts, being at the time in an unsound state of mind'

Chrissie Smiff
05-04-19, 08:49
I have just realised that you have probably seen all the things I found last night Ann, and I'm afraid that of course it doesn't answer your question of how he died. As Julie says, unless you can find a report of his death in a local paper the death cert is the only way to go.

cbcarolyn
05-04-19, 09:25
I looked around to see if any papers were on line. Haringey is the district and they only have papers at the archives which are in Tottenham, I am guessing you are not in the area?

lots of info here about their archives
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/haringey_history_toolkit.pdf

they do have local papers since 1855

cbcarolyn
05-04-19, 09:53
more links which are no help but might be interesting, Haringey seem slow to put anything on line.

here is their archive link
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/libraries-sport-and-leisure/culture-and-entertainment/visiting-haringey/haringey-archive-and-local-history#localhistory

and also a list of publications about the area which might be useful if she had a few in the area:
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/publications_list_2015.pdf


All of that area was known as Middlesex for years, long after it was 'gone' I remember addressing christmas cards with Middx in my childhood to relatives in the area, so assume the papers such as the "middlesex county times" would cover the area after the county had gone, this is on BNA but can't see anything on there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex

This must be the paper you need, they have just added 1877, so maybe you might be lucky and it might be there in a month or two:
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/titles/tottenham-and-edmonton-weekly-herald

Golden Oldie
05-04-19, 17:36
You have all been very helpful. I think this was a family secret and my friend just wanted to know what he did and why.
I will look at the links as I live in Suffolk.
Secrets are not good
Regards
Ann

Janet
07-04-19, 16:54
Earlier certs may have been more forthcoming over possible suicides and I have a 1931 Death cert which leaves me in no doubt,but these days certs are often wrapped up in a way that you can still be left wondering whether it was suicide or not. I had a possivle suicide in 1966 and although I have the death cert I am still left feeling unsure as the cert states Toxic Myocarditis and Pneumonia. The Toxic bit may be a clue but I cannot be a hundred % sure. I think wrapping it up in medical jargon is done to shield relatives and something done fairly recently. I tried to fond out more by weiting to the hospital,but came up against a 100 year ruling so doubtful you will get details in the paper. I certainly never found anything with mine.

But yes I would certainly start with the death Cert to see what that says.

Janet

colin taylor
07-04-19, 20:01
As children in 1949 we heard the family quietly discussing a death and the cause was head in the oven and I did go to a burial . My brothers and I never discussed the incident but a few years back working on family history my aunt said the death was from flu. My brothers agreed that this was not what we remembered so I obtained the death certificate Influenza and chronic nephritis ...the odd thing was that it states that his brother was with him when he died. The relative was only 30 years old and his marriage had recently ended, my aunt gave a brief detail why his marriage failed but my understanding is that his brother was not with him when he died but he was the one they all relied on to " sort things out "

Sylvia C
08-04-19, 01:15
A young woman in OH's tree committed suicide back in 1851. I found the Coroner's Report by Googling her name .......... and it was all reported in its full gruesome detail, and why they thought she'd done (employer had accused her of stealing).

Golden Oldie
08-04-19, 17:21
Thanks everyone
Regards Ann

AntonyM
09-04-19, 12:46
Any death where there is a suggestion or possibility of suicide will almost certainly go to inquest. So look at the informant column - if there was an inquest, the coroner will always be the informant. But it is true that coroners are reluctant to return a verdict of suicide if there is ANY doubt as to the intention of the person, or suggestion of lack of competency (e.g. through mental illness), even when others may think it is fairly obvious.

Olde Crone Holden
09-04-19, 13:05
My grandmother walked in on a neighbour with her head in the oven and called an ambulance. She said later that no good came of her intervention, the woman was sent to prison and later to a mental institution and her three children spent the rest of their childhood in care.

OC

Golden Oldie
09-04-19, 14:40
I did wonder about an inquest. Lots of information to follow up on
Regards
Ann

Janet
09-04-19, 21:22
My grandmother walked in on a neighbour with her head in the oven and called an ambulance. She said later that no good came of her intervention, the woman was sent to prison and later to a mental institution and her three children spent the rest of their childhood in care.

OC

That happened to me once when three of us discovered a friend in this position in the mid 1950's. We qickly tries to resuscitate him and crossing our fingers everything would be alright. It wasn't the first time he had done this as we knew, although it was the first time I had seen him like this. We just watched over him all night but decided against calling an ambulance for the very reasons you have stated. We were lucky and he recovered but I often wonder what would have happened to us if he had not survived. I did not stay around after that. They were dreadful times to have to decide something that went against the grain to save someone from prison and mental Institution. We have at least moded on in that respect.

Janet