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  • Enoch Monks

    Hi everyone I have a REAL puzzler this time and I've got a theory but would like to see if anyone can confirm or put me right.

    It starts so easy. My GG Grandfather was Enoch Monks born in 1844 in Manchester. I found his birth on Lancs BMD. The MMN is given as Monks. On the 1851 census he is living with his mother and her family and they all have the surname Monks. I assumed until now, that he was illegitimate and didn't look too deeply but researching on freereg.org.uk threw up something unexpected.

    I found Enoch's marriage to my GG Grandmother, Emma Moore in 1870. It was his second marriage - I can't find anything at present regarding his first other than it was in 1866 to Pheobe Hawley and she died 6 months later - possibly complications of childbirth. It shows the right age for him and that he was a widower so it all fits, however, it says that his fathers name was James Monks and he was a Warper. I've searched marriages for James and Sarah but nothing fits perfectly. The best I can come up with is a marriage between James Neville and Sarah Monks in 1840 at Manchester Registry Office. There is then a death of a James Monks in 1848 age 49 as I have Sarah (re)marrying John Hampson in 1860.

    So did James Neville marry Sarah Monks in 1840 but keep her surname and why would he do this?

    Thanks

  • #2
    On the new GRO index, there is no mother's maiden name given for Enoch which indicates that he was illegitimate. I cannot imagine why a married woman would pretend to be single when giving birth back then.

    The father's name given on his marriage cert is probably made up to suit the occasion. The first name may be correct. I have several where the father's name is made up to save face!

    OC

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    • #3
      I have also come across several marriage certificates where a father is named, sometimes deceased sometimes not ..... and it has taken a lot of research to prove that the name was made up to save face.

      Sometimes the name of the "father" is that of a grandfather or other relative, a stepfather, or a local person.
      My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

      Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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      • #4
        I would suggest you have the correct information, he was illegitimate.

        I would suppose you have your great grandparent's details proving enoch and emma are their parents. And a copy of the marriage? I would recommend getting a copy of the marriage to phoebe and compare details.

        It's possible he gave a male first name for a father to save respect for an illegitimate birth. Though i have seen the mother's name in that box once or twice!

        I've got grandfather's, brother in law's and step father's down on the records. In all cases the person was legitimate and knew their father, but for whatever reason the wrong name was written down.

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        • #5
          To settle the matter, buy Enoch's birth certificate.

          OC

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          • #6
            Quote from 1st post
            "I have Sarah (re)marrying John Hampson in 1860"
            Her marriage cert will show if she had been widowed or previously married.
            Kat

            My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
              To settle the matter, buy Enoch's birth certificate.

              OC
              That is the best way to prove one way or the other - odd that Lancs BMD show a MMN when that is not the accepted format for an illegitimate birth in the GRO index. It causes confusion as there could easily be a same name father and mother.

              Margaret

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              • #8
                Margaret

                Most of my ancestors are from Lancashire and I am used to seeing married and maiden names the same when an illegitimate birth is concerned. The GRO is of course a completely separate organisation from the local register offices and compile their indexes in a different way from each other.

                OC

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                  Margaret

                  Most of my ancestors are from Lancashire and I am used to seeing married and maiden names the same when an illegitimate birth is concerned. The GRO is of course a completely separate organisation from the local register offices and compile their indexes in a different way from each other.

                  OC

                  I have the same for several of my ancestors from Lancashire.

                  Lancashire bmd has many mmn back to 1837, ie way before we could see them on Freebmd ............. that's only changed since the GRO Index was released and let's us see them for all over the country.
                  My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                  Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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