Name change, - how can I search?

[Holly]

I'm fairly convinced that the reason that I can't find my late Grandfather William James Wilson (1860 - 1937) anywhere before his Marriage to my Grandmother Margaret Rees in Swansea on the 22nd June 1893... is because he was using a different Surname prior to that date.

The reasons for this could be: illegitimacy/Mother's remarriage/something to hide/criminality/ etc, etc...

My query is... what is the best method of trying to find him on one of the earlier Censuses?

In 1893 on his Marriage Cert, he gives his Occupation as 'Painter'. On the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Wales he is a 'Painter and Decorator'. I've tried searching on the 1881 for a 'William W****' 'Painter', but nothing pops up which follows through... (I've counter checked on the 1911).

I'm stumped:-( Has anyone got any suggestions of what else I can try?

Holly.

[Guest]

who does it say is his father and his occupation on the marriage cert?

[Guest]

wonder if this is him

Address York Street, Swansea Town and Franchise, Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales

Year of census: 1881

William Wilson Boarder Single Male 26 1865 House Painter Kent, England

Archive reference RG12
Piece number 4477
Folio 13
Page 19

[Guest]

what about this one in 1881

1, Lion Street, Swansea (Town), Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales


Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Mary Ann Punchard Head Married Female 48 1833 Mariners Wife Torquay, Devon, England
Albert Hy Punchard Son Single Male 23 1858 Painter Torquay, Devon, England
William Jas Punchard Son Single Male 18 1863 Painter Torquay, Devon, England
John Edmd Punchard Son Single Male 16 1865 Grocers Assistant Carmarthenshire, Wales
Laura Louisa Punchard Daughter Single Female 14 1867 Dressmaker Carmarthenshire, Wales
Florence Minnie Punchard Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Carmarthenshire, Wales
Edgar Chas Punchard Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales

RG11
Piece number 5360
Folio 121
Page 27

[Guest]

1881
Maengwyn Street, Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire, Wales

William Wilson Head Widower Male 55 1826 Flannel Manufacturer Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire, Wales
William Wilson Son Single Male 19 1862 Painter Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Margaret Wilson Daughter Single Female 16 1865 Housekeeper Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire, Wales

RG11
Piece number 5477
Folio 66
Page 10

[Guest]

oh I see he says born in Manchester Lancs, thought I remembered him

[Holly]

Thanks for looking Val.

Yes, I've spent years trying to find him before 1893, and lots of people on here have looked too...

A name change seems the most likely explanation, and I've been counter checking against the 1911, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere:-(

Any further thoughts welcomed!

Holly.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

A very long, laborious job, but you could try listing all the Williams (just William!) born 1860 +/- 1 (in the given pob) in 1861 census and then follow them (and perhaps the mothers too) through until 1901, eliminating ones who died/married someone else, or definitely couldn't have been your man. If you don't identify any possibilities, then gradually widen the net by year of birth, place of birth etc.
I've done this with some success, but I was dealing with folks born in rural areas and therefore there were less possibilities. However, for some of them I had to search using whole county rather than pob; also some people were recorded by their middle name rather than the first forename.
Some members use a spread sheet/data sorting programme for exercises like this.

Jay

[Holly]

Thanks for the input Janet.

I've already tried this to some extent, but have kept rough notes rather than a spreadsheet. I will give that a go I think...

I found a change of name G/G/Grandfather on the other side of the family by following all of the Marriages in the right time frame in his Wife's name. This though is more complicated, as I think it took place prior to his Marriage; which gives a time frame of 32yrs:-(

I've tried following his Father, taking the info he gave on the 1893 Marriage Cert, but that led nowhere...

I've also tried following illegitimate Wilson Births for 1860/'61, but nothing definate.

Holly.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I wouldn't place too much reliance on where he says he was born, I've found plenty of mine saying they were born where they were living on census - I suspect a lazy enumerator!

I have done what Jay describes for one of my elusive ancestors. Took me ages because I had over 200 candidates but it did eventually pay off.

OC

[Janet in Yorkshire]

If he was illegitimate, he may not have been a Wilson at birth; alternatively he may have been born a Wilson, and at his marriage invented a father named Wilson to cover up an illegitimacy.
Some family circumstances can be quite complex. My elderly neighbour from childhood was Willie T. However he had been brought up by his grandmother and her husband, Mr & Mrs Walker, and until his marriage had been known as Willie Walker. His bride to be wanted to know what his birth surname was - seems Granny Walker had been Miss T before her marriage and had had an illegitimate daughter Jane T. Jane gave birth to an illegitimate son Willie T, but as he always lived with his grandmother Mrs Walker, he was known as Willie Walker. After the marriage, he and his wife were always referred to as Mr & Mrs T.
Living in a small rural community, I was brought up learning about many similar scenarios - most families had at least one irregular relationship that we all knew about. I think this was one of the things that fostered my interest in family history, especially as I spent a lot of time in the church burial ground ;) as my friend's father was the sexton and her mother the sacristan and cleaner.

Jay

[Holly]

I'm sure that there is some complex tangled story here that has consistently eluded me.
Those of William James Wilson's sons who did Marry, (3 of 6) all did so later in life. My Father was 50 when he married my Mother. And so I've wondered if this was a family trait...
I was hoping that the 1911 Census might have shed some light, but it didn't.
'Manchester' is rather an catch all area to give as a POB, but I have searched the whole County to no avail.
The name change scenario seems the most likely one to me. The really annoying thing is that from 1901 to 1937 there is no problem at all with following him. Why is it so impossible before 1893?
Holly:-(((

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I'm wondering why at some point he went from Manchester to Swansea - or was it just that the marriage took place there? I don't think you've said where the couple were from 1901 onwards?

Jay

[Guest]

did you say what his fathers occupation was?

[Holly]

Hi Jay and Val.

Val, on my Grandfather's Marriage Cert, (in 1893) he gives his Father as 'William Wilson (Deceased) Occupation: Mason'.

I had wondered that too Jay... I would have thought that there would have been the same work opportunities for a House Painter in Manchester as there were in Swansea in the 1890's? I went through the 1891 Census for Swansea manually at one stage, because on his Marriage Cert he gives his Address, (in 1893) as 'Lower Oxford Street, Swansea'. However, he doesn't seem to be there in 1891.

Soon after his Marriage, he brought a property in Church Park, The Mumbles and set up a Drapery business there. This seems to have failed, and on the 1901 Census, his wife is running it from the house that they rented in St Helens Road Swansea.

Although Margaret Rees' family were long established in Swansea, and were Welsh speaking, William James Wilson seems to have had no links there, and so it's a mystery as to why he went there in the first place...

He set up a Painting and Decorating Business, 'Wilson and Co' in 1895, and ran it, with his wife's assistance, until 1930/'31. His youngest son, Archie Wilson, committed suicide at home in 'Y Plas, Llangyfelach Road in 1930, when he was 26yrs old. In 1931 the family uprooted from Swansea and moved to Wembley, Middx. Margaret died there in 1934, and William James Wilson in December 1937.

No one left alive to ask for any more info sadly:-(

Holly.

[vera2013]

Is it possible to put link to previous thread? Seem to remember possible Scottish and Naval connection.

Did the usual on FMP ie variation in first names, +/- dob, Manchester/
Lancs, Painter - returned zillions without surname and lots with. But then may not even have been born Lancs.
Found a chap in the Army who was b Manchester, nok mother Mary Wilson, Dumfries. Discharged Dover for contraction of the palmar fascia! so not likely to be a Painter.
Will have a look at Scotlands People
Vera

[JudithM]

Think these are Holly's previous threads about William

https://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/116282-Can-t-Find-this-Family?highlight=william+wilson

https://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/118575-Can-anyone-see-this-man-on-the-1891-Census-please?highlight=william+wilson

[Sylvia C]

Is it possible that he was born in Wales but moved to the Manchester area when a very young child?

It is not unknown for people to think the area where they grew up was where they were born if such an early move happened.

[vera2013]

Think these are Holly's previous threads about William

https://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/116282-Can-t-Find-this-Family?highlight=william+wilson

https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...william+wilson

Thanks Judith

Vera

[Holly]

Thanks Judith, I was trying to work out how to do that.
Holly.