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Elizabeth Mary Ann Tuddenham b1856

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  • Elizabeth Mary Ann Tuddenham b1856

    Births Dec 1856

    Tuddenham
    Elizabeth Mary Ann

    Lincoln 7a 447


    In the 1861 census she appears as a boarder in the household of George Graby and his wife Eliza (nee Chambers).


    In 1864 an Elizabeth Tuddenham marries George Chambers in Lincoln, a witness to the marriage is George Graby, (known to be the same man as the '61 census return).


    I wonder if Elizabeth b 1856 may be the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth m1864? I can't find a baptism record for the 1856 birth, or any census/bmd event for her using the free sites. Nothing for the name in the papers or deceased online (there is a death record and burial of an Elizabeth Graham Tuddenham in Lincoln during 1862, I know this is a different girl).


    So what happened to her and who might her mother be?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

  • #2
    No mmn on the GRO Index version, which indicates that the mmn was the same as the baby's, and therefore she is probably illegitimate unless both father and mother had same surname. You'd have to get the certificate to be certain.

    Now only £6 to get a pdf from GRO by email

    TUDDENHAM, ELIZABETH MARY ANN mmn -
    GRO Reference: 1856 D Quarter in LINCOLN Volume 07A Page 447
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd probably go local as they scan the register and I have a marriage cert to compare the signatures, knowing my luck Eliza Graby registered the event, (she is the sister of the groom in the 1864 marriage), she seems to be the one who registered almost everything in the Chambers family for some reason. I'd still love to know what happened to her, not quite my family as such (unless the groom, who is my great grandfather) happens to be the daddy.
      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

      Comment


      • #4
        might this be her ?

        Elizabeth
        Last name Tuddenham
        Age 5
        Birth year 1857
        Death year 1862
        Burial year 1862
        Burial date 13 Feb 1862
        Church Canwick Road Cemetery
        Denomination Cemetery
        Place Lincoln
        County Lincolnshire
        Country England
        Record set National Burial Index For England & Wales

        Comment


        • #5
          That's Elizabeth Graham Tuddenham

          Tuddenham, Elizabeth Graham
          BuriedOn:
          13 February 1862

          Recorded at:
          Canwick Road Cemetery (Lincolnshire)


          Although I can't find a birth or baptism for her, that would be some horrible mistranscription in the register if it were the same girl.
          Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 23-08-18, 22:41.
          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

          Comment


          • #6
            sorry thought it was a different Tuddenham.

            Comment


            • #7
              Stranger and stranger, the burial register for Elizabeth Graham Tuddenham shows her address at time of death as Hungate Court.

              In 1851, living in Hungate Court was Ann Chambers and family, it's the family of the groom in the 1864 marriage.


              They appear at the bottom of the page so not sure about the adjacent households and by '61 they had moved.


              Edit to say, in the 1871 they are back in Hungate Court and Ann died in Hungate Court in 1879.
              Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 23-08-18, 23:00.
              http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

              Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
              My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
              My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

              Comment


              • #8
                1851 Census Hungate Court, Chambers family including George Chambers

                Births Dec 1856, Elizabeth Mary Ann Tuddenham


                1861 Census Elizabeth Mary Ann Tuddenham together with George Graby and Eliza Graby, (nee Chambers).

                1862 Death of Elizabeth Graham Tuddenham, address given as Hungate Court

                1864 Marriage of Elizabeth Tuddenham & George Chambers, witness George Graby

                1871 Census, Hungate Court, Chambers family

                1879 Death of Ann Chambers, Hungate Court, registered by Eliza Graby (nee Chambers)

                Still not conclusive but it seems odd the only 3 events in the Tuddenham name in Lincoln all relate to the same area and the Chambers family.
                Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 23-08-18, 23:16.
                http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd get that birth and death to see who the informants were. A relationship to the child might be established.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm going the PdF route just to solve the mystery, if nothing else it may show something that proves George Chambers and Elizabeth snr were both linked to Hungate Court, met each other and then married. George is probably a bit young to be the father but it's one of those little snippets I love finding to add to the story of the lives of the ancestors.
                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      very interesting re the muddling of names, hopefully the pdfs help Glen, [I'll be watching for the results] :smilee:
                      Julie
                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                      .......I find dead people

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes Glen, I will be interested too I have looked at several Elizabeth Graham .......(all) born around the right time and non of them seem to fit. So it is looking promising. I wonder if she found out that her father was a Graham and she (or her mother) changed her middle name later?
                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm wondering that too, the surname only appears in the Lincoln census once, (the 1861 entry), I'm assuming Elizabeth senior is mum, she seems to lower her age in the census returns though I've since lost the early ones.

                          Based on her marriage cert with fathers name and the 1871 return I think she was baptised in Thetford in the 1820's though in 1871 she claims to be 34 and 1872 burial register states 38. I suspect she lowered her age as if the baptism I have is correct she was at least 13 years older than her hubby.

                          County Norfolk
                          Place Thetford
                          Church St. Cuthbert
                          RegisterNumber 349
                          DateOfBirth 23 Feb 1829
                          BaptismDate 26 Apr 1829
                          Forename Elizabeth
                          Sex F
                          FatherForename Robert
                          MotherForename Charlotte
                          FatherSurname TUDDENHAM
                          MotherSurname FILBY
                          Abode St. Cuthbert's [Thetford]
                          FatherOccupation Cooper


                          Now to wait for the downloads to be sent!
                          http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                          Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                          My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                          My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well certs have finally been delivered, the birth cert shows the Dec 1856 birth of Elizabeth Mary Ann Tuddenham, daughter of Elizabeth Tuddenham, no father noted. Address given as 4 Union Road, Lincoln.


                            Death cert, Feb 1862, Mary Graham Tuddenham, aged 5 years, daughter of Elizabeth Tuddenham. Died at 1 Hungate Court, death registered by Eliza Graby, present at the death.



                            It's not definitive proof that it's the same girl but as the mother in both cases has the same name, and a woman of that name married George Chambers, (and his sister is Eliza Graby), I feel certain the odds are it is the same girl on both documents. Now to try and find an 1861 return for 4 Union Road, maybe no revelations but you never know.
                            Last edited by Glen in Tinsel Knickers; 30-08-18, 14:18.
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                            Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                            My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                            My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Could this be any help? George Graby (Farm labourer) and Eliza Graby (Graby mistranscribed on FMP as Galley) (married) with a boarder Elizabeth Tuddenham aged 3. Living at 1, Looks like Hungerton? court Lincoln.
                              Create an account for free with Findmypast to discover your family history and build a family tree. Search birth records, census data, death records and more.
                              Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 30-08-18, 18:28.
                              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                1 Hungate Court in 1861, same addy as the death cert.
                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I meant to say that FMP have transcribed her as Elizabeth M Tuddenham, though I can only make out the Elizabeth Tuddenham on the page.
                                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Sorry Glen, I have just realised that you already had this. I should have re-read your first post again before charging off to look. I couldn't find 4 Union Road.
                                    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I've got some family on Union Road in a census somewhere, just not sure which line of the family, I may have to open a ged file in notepad or something similar, it will save hunting through all my census images with any luck. I doubt it will help but I haven't had any joy on the free census sites and Elizabeth snr does chop and change her age to make things look a bit more decent,
                                      http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                      Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                      My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                      My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Pfft, found the family on Union Road, it's 1861 and it's another branch of the Chambers family, the only problem is that it's Union Road in Worksop not Lincoln.
                                        http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

                                        Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
                                        My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
                                        My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

                                        Comment

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