William Frederick Tann dilemna

[Elaine]

Would appreciate some advice/thought/help with him again.

In short, my William born 15 Nov 1838 Leyton, is convicted and sent to Gibraltar, have his paperwork up and till he is sent home. I have always believed he went to the states and have at long last found his death certificate which I thought would nail it.

as William Taun

https://www.sos.mo.gov/images/archives/deathcerts/1928/1928_00017802.PDF

he is widowed and the certificate names his first wife Mary Hartnett; no problem as he married her first as proved by one of his sons baptisms when it is as Haitnelt.

I have the second marriage to Mary Sheehan ( was Doherty ) but she is not mentioned at all on the death certificate, his parents are named as William Tann and Elizabeth ?Bertrand, so my dilemna is his mother's maiden name. His father is only known officially as Frederick but given as William Frederick on his convict notes whilst his mother is actually Susannah Elizabeth Bearchall who is always found as Elizabeth.

I am hoping too much he is still my man with the given MMN ?

I cannot find his first marriage and only have one baptism for a son nor can I seem to get anywhere looking for Elizabeth Bertrand in England...at least that's what I think the surname is.

William F. Tann in entry for Thomas George Tann, Great Britain, Births and Baptisms, 1571-1977
Name: Thomas George Tann
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 10 May 1868
Christening Place: IMMACULATE CONCEPTION CHAPEL-CATHOLIC, SOUTH ORANGE, ESSEX,
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1868
Father's Name: William F. Tann
Mother's Name: Mary Haitnelt
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C53131-1
System Origin: Great Britain-EASy and VR
GS Film number: 1378019
Reference ID: - 2:1WDPW39

1865 Ward 07, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States
Frederick Tann Father M 27
Mary Tann Wife F 28
Mary E Tann Daughter F 1
W H Tann Son M 0

Wm Fred'K Tann M 35 England
Mary Tann F 35 England
Mary E Tann F 7 New York
Wm Fred'K Tann M 6 New York
Richard J Tann M 5 New York
George Tann M 2 New Jersey

1880 Kansas
W. F. Tann 47
Mary Tann 50
Elizabeth Tann 18
Frederick Tann 16
George Tann 12
Johanna Tann 7

This Mary dies before 1905, family are in Wyandotte by this time and William is on census returns with his second younger wife. Occupation and family names are so close to home...Richard and Johanna are his step parents names.

Any input would be very welcome as the first marriage has always alluded me and the second does not give any details to help

[Guest]

do you have this
TANN, WILLIAM FREDERICK BURCHELL Order
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in WEST HAM UNION Volume 18 Page 235

[Janet in Yorkshire]

It's tantalising, isn't Elaine?
Can't help much at present, but just a comment or two, for what they're worth. (Perhaps "ramble" would be a better word than "comment!")
The informant sounds like a nun, rather than a family member, so it's possible she didn't know all his personal details - as we know, even relatives make inaccurate responses. Also, due to his age and ailments, William's mental faculties may have been impaired.
I wonder why he was in a facility for the aged if he had a much younger wife - perhaps she didn't want to care for him, left him, arranged for him to go into a home against his will etc. Perhaps he had dementia, lived in the past and couldn't remember that he even had a second wife??
I think the surname given for the mother is phonetically quite close - Bertran & Bershall. I don't know that soeur Marie Auguste was a native French speaker, but the names sound quite similar if you try saying them with a French pronunciation!
When was he released from Gibraltar? (Just so we have the parameters for a marriage search.)

Jay

[Guest]

is this the parents marriage

Susannah Elizabeth last name Bearchell
Name note -
Marriage year 1837
Marriage date 13 Apr 1837
Marriage place Stepney
Spouse's first name(s) Frederick
Spouse's last name Tann
County London
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Now I've found my reading glasses, I see he suffered from senility & also nephritis, which can cause urine infections and memory loss.

Jay

[Elaine]

Thanks Val, I do, his father dies 1839 and Elizabeth ?marries Richard Jakeman

1851 HO107/ 1499 Folio: 650 Pg 42
5 Henry Street, Islington, Finsbury
JAKEMAN, Richard Head Mar 40 Wood Sawyer Northamptonshire
JAKEMAN, Elizabeth Wife Mar 34 Laundress Stratford, Essex
JAKEMAN, Elizabeth Dau 5 Scholar St Pancras, Middlesex
JAKEMAN, Richard Son 4 Scholar Islington, Middlesex
JAKEMAN, Emily Dau 3 Scholar Islington, Middlesex
JAKEMAN, William J Son 12 Scholar Layton, Essex***
SHEFFIELD, William Lodger Unmarr 28 Ostler Northamptonshire
SATTERALL, William Lodger Widower 42 Shoemaker Bedfordshire

she dies 11 Dec 1851

he is with granparents 1841

1841 Census of Lea Rd Leyton , Essex
HO107/ 323/ Folio: 48 Pg 12
William Tann age 70 labourer born out of county
Sophia Tann 50 born in county
Clara Tann 25 in county
Caroline Tann 20 in county
Frederick Tann 3 in county...Elizabeth Tann age 12 also

Got as much info on him as I could up to leaving England

Redhill Reformatory Records Admission 1855
Wm. Fr. Tann Glass blower, died 15 yrs ago
Stepfather Richard Jakeman Sawyer married the boys mother Elizabeth Tann about 12 yrs ago
Eliz. Tann died Dec 1851
The Stepfather married
Mrs Harding nearly 2 yrs
Aunt's address Mrs Jakeman 3 Tillerton Terrace, Putney St. Barnsbury Rd, Islington
2 Sister's & 1 Bro. by Jakeman's marriage to his mother
1 Stepbro. by Jakeman's marriage to his stepmother
Stepmother had 11 children by fomer husband

Mrs Harding is Esther Johanna, she marries Richard Jakeman reverting back to her maiden name

JAKEMAN Richard St. Giles London 1853 Jan-Feb-Mar
HUGHES, Esther Joanah

[Elaine]

It is tantilising Jay!
You have had the same thoughts as me

He headed home 13 Feb 1862

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Quite a tight time line then 1862 to 1865. Could he have brought the wife home with him? Or do you think he married her in the US, perhaps?

Some years ago I put in an e-mail request to the Brooklyn Public library and the member of the library staff allocated to my query was very helpful indeed; suggested a newspaper site to search and told me what info they had on file about the lady in question and, as she had written a book, they had a photo of her which they e-mailed through. Sorry I don't have the e-mail address for the library (had to have a new PC and lost a few e-mails). If I recall correctly, they had a genealogy/help department and I think I may??? have had to register, and to then submit my request. Google Brooklyn library, see what comes up and give it a shot - the worst that can happen is that they can't help.

Jay

[Elaine]

Will do Jay, thank you.

Stumped as to where he married or any sighting of Mary before marriage.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I wonder if he had to make his own way back from Gib, perhaps working his passage in stages? Could he have come back through Europe or via the Channel Isles?? (Mary's surname sounds Continental.) Or perhaps he met her on the boat to America?

Jay

[Elaine]

On his records he left on The Ceylon which does arrive back in England according to the newspaper 1862.

[Elaine]

Have even been to the Gibraltar archives bur they don't have anything for convicts

[kylejustin]

The initial post states the first marriage to mary hartnett is missing, the one to mary sheehan nee doherty was found.

Hartnett is english, sheehan is irish.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The initial post states the first marriage to mary hartnett is missing, the one to mary sheehan nee doherty was found.

Hartnett is english, sheehan is irish.

I read the name in the opening post as Haitnelt not Hartnett.

Jay

[Elaine]

Thought best to add the baptism, Hartnett on William's death

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The baptism record would have been during William's lifetime and the information given by William or his wife. The name on the death cert was supplied by a third party. The two versions look similar and it is possible that the informant saw the name on a family paper amongst William's possessions and misread it.

Jay

[Elaine]

Thanks Jay, was never quite sure which surname was right as I can't find any information for her.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I concur that Haitnelt seems to be a very rare name - google doesn't really throw up anything. But as we all know, we should always try to follow up all possibilities.
You've probably said this up thread, but I'm presuming you haven't managed to find the death registration of Mary, which may have given her maiden name or the names of her parents? (I was wondering if a copy of this could have been amongst William's possessions and was the source of soeur Marie Auguste's information.)

I know just how frustrating these "missing" links can be, but fresh records continue to be released online very regularly. Let's hope that something of use to you turns up soon. Do you have any idea where he was buried? Was his first wife buried there too? I only have UK Ancestry & FMP, so can't help much with US resources.:(

Jay

[Elaine]

Morning

Started to look again last night for the 2 Mary's and will look at the burial on his certificate. He spent so long in Wyandotte am a bit phased by now having to search Missouri for the first time.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

What did William do for a living?
The geography is a bit complicated isn't it? I know Kansas city straddles a river and one part of the city is in Kansas state and the other part is in Missouri. (When I spent one night there in 1980, one state was "dry" but the other allowed alcohol. There was much anxiety amongst my fellow travellers as to which state our hotel was in and in which part of the city we were booked in for our evening meal!!!) A google search throws up references to Wyandotte county, Kansas, and also Wyandotte county, Missouri, as well as references to Wyandotte being part of greater Kansas city! I guess the county must straddle the river. Well, that's better than my first foray last night when I came across Wyandotte Michigan, and this morning when I came across Wyandotte Oklahoma!
So it sounds as if he was first in Brooklyn (a New York sailing perhaps?) then in New Jersey, then moved onto to the Kansas city area, his death being registered in Missouri. Have I got that right?
I was wondering about his occupation in case it had anything to do with his migration to the US - there were so many schemes and recruiting campaigns to get skilled workers as well as labourers, some with passage paid by the employer.

Jay