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What became of John Watson, after 1820?

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  • What became of John Watson, after 1820?

    My ancestress Ann Holt (born 1798) married John Watson at Seaton Ross, East Yorkshire, on 15 Dec 1817.
    There were two children - William Watson bp 21 Dec 1817 & Mary Watson bp 29 Oct 1820 - both baptisms were at Seaton Ross, the parents of the children were recorded as John and Ann and John was a labourer.

    I know nothing more of John Watson.

    Ann then had two Watson daughters: Elizabeth born & bp in the workhouse in 1823 and Sarah bp Harswell in 1830. Both girls were recorded as daughters of Ann Watson, spinster in 1823, servant woman in 1830.
    In October 1832 Ann Watson married George Kell at Harswell - no marital status was recorded for either party. There were four children from the marriage and the couple lived at Holme-on-Spalding-Moor, where Ann died in April 1849.

    I have never been able to pinpoint a death for John Watson as I know so little about him. However, I think he MAY have been the John Watson bp Seaton Ross in 1782, son of John & Sarah Watson. In which case, he was quite a bit older that Ann, and presumably reluctant to marry - bp of first child just 6 days after the marriage.;)
    Please don't waste any time researching Ann, or her three sets of children, as I do have details on them already.
    Thanks for looking.
    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 03-06-18, 15:57.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  • #2
    if you think he was born in 1782 could this be his death

    Record set Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Burials
    First name(s) John
    Last name Watson
    Burial year 1849
    Birth year 1782
    County Yorkshire (East Riding)
    Country England
    Burial place Seaton Ross
    Age at death 67
    Burial date 16 Oct 1849
    Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
    Archive reference PR S/R 17
    Page 44
    Last edited by Guest; 03-06-18, 21:56.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for that, Val.

      Mmm! If that John WAS the one Ann married at Seaton Ross in 1817, then she took a big risk marrying again in 1832 in Harswell. Harswell and Seaton Ross are neighbouring villages, both adjoining the village of Holme on Spalding Moor, where Ann lived with her second husband.
      The 1849 burial entry recorded that John was a resident of Thorpe le Street - the next village to Harswell. All a bit close for comfort, I would have thought someone would have spilled the beans if Ann was a bigamist.

      http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x...+of+Yorkshire+[Town]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
      (minimise by one to see the proximity of the villages)

      In 1841 there was a John Watson living in Thorpe le Street with wife Jane and several children - I think this ties in with the burial Val found, but is it the same man as the one who married Ann Holt??

      Jay
      Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 03-06-18, 22:55.
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


      • #4
        Seem that the eldest child of the Thorpe le St couple was bp at Seaton Ross in 1818; also that John Watson was a farmer, whilst Ann's spouse was a labourer.
        So, I think Ann's husband probably WASN'T the John born in Seaton Ross in 1782 But in that case, who was he??

        Jay
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


        • #5
          Wonder why she says Spinster on the Births of Elizabeth and Sarah ? surely it should be Married or Widow .

          Comment


          • #6
            Elizabeth was born at Holme on Spalding Moor workhouse, according to the bp register. So, presumably Ann would have had to give some personal details to explain why she needed to be admitted. Both her parents were dead and none of her many siblings lived at HoSM. Her daughter Mary had died at 6 months old and I'm unsure about William, her firstborn. I have often wondered if he died shortly after his baptism - I've never tracked an infant burial for him, but neither have I found census entries for him.

            All this family were economical with the truth. In 1841 all Ann's children were recorded with the surname Kell. By 1851 Elizabeth and Sarah had reverted to Watson. When Sarah married in 1858, she used the surname Holt, her mother's maiden name, and the name of her father was recorded as George Kirby.
            Working backwards from the 1858 marriage, and with not many relevant records online, it took me almost 20 years to unravel the origins of my ancestress "Sarah Holt." Census returns and baptism entries for Sarah Holt led me down many false trails and I abandoned the search several times in order to retain my sanity!

            Jay
            Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 04-06-18, 00:33.
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


            • #7
              sounds like my lot, I'll have another look.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Val.
                I think I'll have to go back to the drawing board and chase up a few different John Watsons in that area.

                Jay
                Janet in Yorkshire



                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not sure if you have seen this, Jay.............



                  But thought I would post it anyway.
                  Jacky

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Jacky. I hadn't seen the website but recognise the man's name from his Ancestry trees.
                    Over the years I have collected all of those people as part of my extended family - TWICE! According to my gt-gt-grandfather's marriage certificate, he married a spinster named Sarah Holt. Prior to the internet, I spent years combing through un-indexed reels of census film, and eventually came up with one possibility for Sarah, although her age was out by ten years. I collected lots of information about the Holt family of HoSM, but several years later discovered that that Sarah Holt had eventually married, but not to my gt-gt-grandfather.
                    Years later I came across another Sarah Holt, illeg daughter of Ruth Holt of HoSM. I thought I'd cracked it this time and did loads of additional research on the extended Holt family, but just had one small seed of doubt. An eventual search of parish records unearthed the burial of Ruth's daughter, a teenager. So, all that Holt research just went into a folder and into a box

                    More years passed and I discovered that one of my ancestors on another line, a John Botterill, took for his second wife a widow, Sophia, whose birth name had been Holt. This revived my interest in the Holts and out came the old papers. Sophia and the aforementioned Ruth Holt were sisters, and had eight other siblings. The witnesses at the wedding of my gt-gt-grandparents were mother and son, George and Esther Fenton. According to the transcription of the marriage register, Mrs Fenton's maiden name was Hough, but when I was able to check the original record, it was Hought (Holt???) Esther had been born in HoSM at the right time - so was she Sarah's aunty???
                    Sarah didn't belong to any of the Holt boys, but one of the girls, Ann Holt, sister of Sophia, Esther and Ruth, had indeed had a daughter Sarah Watson, born at Harswell in 1830, which matched the census info for my gt-gt-grandmother AFTER her marriage. Ann's daughter was baptised Sarah Watson, but by the time of 1841 census, her mother had remarried and Sarah was recorded in the parental home as Sarah Kell. Ann Holt Watson Kell died in 1849 and in 1851 census her daughter Sarah was keeping house for her widowed step-father, but was recorded as Sarah Watson.
                    I think she must have known that neither Mr Kell nor Mr Watson was her birth father, and so at her marriage she took her mother's birth surname as her own birth surname. This is the only occasion when she used the name Sarah HOLT, which has caused me tremendous headaches over the years. BUT, all that Holt research eventually came in useful!!!! So, folks, keep all your notes and doodles!

                    So, John Watson is probably not a blood relative - it's just that I would have liked to tie up the loose end, as it were.
                    Thanks to all who have read my opening post and made helpful suggestions.

                    Now, on the 1858 marriage cert, Sarah Holt named her father as George Kirby - any takers for that one??? :D :D :D

                    Jay
                    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 05-06-18, 18:03.
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      wish I felt better as I'd love to have a bigger go, but lack of sleep is making me dopey, but I will have a try.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Val, I'm so sorry to hear you are not sleeping. Please don't go busting a gut over my piffling little query - it's a very low priority.

                        Hope you manage to get some pain-free rest tonight. XX

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just a thought, Jay, have you looked on our Gedcom.

                          Val, you take care of yourself, your heart is willing but your tired and not well.....as Jay has said, I too, hope you get a good nights rest.
                          Jacky

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tilly Mint View Post
                            Just a thought, Jay, have you looked on our Gedcom.

                            Val, you take care of yourself, your heart is willing but your tired and not well.....as Jay has said, I too, hope you get a good nights rest.
                            No luck with out gedcom, Jackie, but thanks for suggesting it.

                            I've e-mailed the owner of the site you posted. He has got Ann's parents (John & Elizabeth D) right, but I think he's off track with her grandparents. I believe Ann's father married twice, firstly to Elisabeth G (with whom he had a son John) and then to Elizabeth D with whom he had ten children, including Ann. However the tree owner has John & Elisabeth G as the parents of Ann's father John. I hope he'll get back to me, as he is descended from Ann's second marriage.

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Name: John Watson
                              Death Date: 7 Feb 1834
                              Cemetery: St Edmund Churchyard
                              Burial or Cremation Place: Seaton Ross, East Riding of Yorkshire Unitary Authority, East Riding of Yorkshire, England
                              Has Bio?: N
                              URL: https://www.findagrave.com/mem...


                              maybe John ?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thanks for looking, Val. Don't think that was him though as he was 78 yrs old - "a most respected farmer," according to Seaton Ross PR. He would have been born in 1756, Ann's senior by 42 yrs.

                                Jay - did you get any sleep and some respite from pain last night?
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Funny enough I went to bed early as was so tired ,but got woken up with bad cramp in my legs and feet, its happened a lot since I came out of Hospital, dont know why.
                                  Thanks for asking.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Legs and feet cramp whilst in bed can be agonising, so you have my sympathy, Val. I think that it often strikes when you're sleeping very soundly and stay in one position, especially if you sleep on your side and one limb rests and presses on the other. Have you tried having a drink of tonic before you go to bed? ( The addition of gin is optional :D)

                                    Jay
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Yes I did hear thats good for it, think my problem is I dont drink nearly enough, cant be bothered.
                                      Night thenx

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        seeing as it was common to name the children after the parents? there is a baptism for a John Watson in 1774 parents William and Mary??? same names as the first two children .

                                        Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Baptisms
                                        First name(s) John
                                        Last name Watson
                                        Baptism year 1774
                                        Birth year -
                                        County Yorkshire (East Riding)
                                        Country England
                                        Baptism place Seaton Ross
                                        Mother's first name(s) Mary
                                        Father's first name(s) William
                                        Baptism date 12 Jun 1774

                                        Comment

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