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Golden Oldie
25-04-18, 10:56
I have been trying to find the birth and family for George Chipperfield (my gr gr grandfather) for years. This is my last attempt. Here is what I know.
He was born around 1822. He did not really know where he was born as census show London. St George in the East and Suffolk.
He married Sophia Frewen in 1847 in Dublin and then came to St George in the East. I am ok after that but it is his marriage and before that is a problem.

I have the marriage certificate that says he is a cabinet maker. His father is George Edward Chipperfield also a cabinet maker.

I can find plenty of Georges but none to match the info given. Also why was he in Ireland???

I would be grateful for your help and if I cant find him it was not for want of trying

Regards Ann

Karamazov
25-04-18, 11:33
This would tie in with being born in Suffolk, with father's name George:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3AGeorge~%20%2Bsurname%3AChippe rfield~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1818-1825~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3AGeorge%20%2Bfather_s urname%3AChipperfield

Christine

Karamazov
25-04-18, 12:01
This would tie in with being born in Suffolk, with father's name George:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3AGeorge~%20%2Bsurname%3AChippe rfield~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1818-1825~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3AGeorge%20%2Bfather_s urname%3AChipperfield

Christine

Although treat this with caution - I haven't been able to do any cross checking - eg to find him in 1841 census.

Janet in Yorkshire
25-04-18, 12:04
At that time, Ireland was part of the UK and there was much toing and froing across the Irish sea. As he was a cabinet maker, he could well have spent some time in Ireland for work purposes - lots of big country houses belonging to titled people (mainly of English origins or connections) who may well have been doing an interior revamp and had skilled craftsmen over to make custom built/commissioned pieces of furniture.

Jay

Janet in Yorkshire
25-04-18, 12:37
Possible marriage for George's parents???
22 Dec 1818 at Sotterley Suffolk, George Chipperfield & Hannah Candler

Jay

Katarzyna
25-04-18, 12:45
This would tie in with being born in Suffolk, with father's name George:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3AGeorge~%20%2Bsurname%3AChippe rfield~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1818-1825~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3AGeorge%20%2Bfather_s urname%3AChipperfield

Christine

This could be the marriage of George and Hannah

George Chipperfield
Marriage year 1818
Marriage date 22 Dec 1818
Marriage place Sotterley
Spouse's first name(s) Hannah
Spouse's last name Candler

and George senior Bap.

George Chipperfield
Birth year 1798
Baptism year 1798
Baptism date 02 Dec 1798
Place Kessingland
Father's first name(s) Charles
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Relationship Son Of
Parents Charles & Mary
County Suffolk

Kirkley, Sotterley and Kessingland are all in the same area between Lowestoft and Beccles.

Katarzyna
25-04-18, 13:23
Burial
George Chipperfield
Age 72
Birth year 1799
Burial date 07 Oct 1871
Church St Edmund
Denomination Anglican
Place Kessingland

This George Chipperfield with Hannah is on all the censuses as a butcher :(

Golden Oldie
25-04-18, 13:31
Thank you all. The info about the men going over to work was interesting and I can understand that. As regards Hannah and George, I think I was unsure about them as the father George was not the occupation that was on the marriage certificate. But that does not mean the info was correct. There is a George age 15 0n the census for 1841 living in Lowestoft but I cant read it very well. The head is John Stanton publican.
regards
Ann

Janet in Yorkshire
25-04-18, 13:41
Someone with a tree on Ancestry had added the image of the Kirkley 1820 bp. This record has the father George as a butcher. :(
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61042/4389270_01871/2266917?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/12197331/person/2062700721/facts

I don't seem to be able to access this image on familysearch, so am hoping the link from the Ancestry tree works.

Jay

Janet in Yorkshire
25-04-18, 13:50
It is always possible that the entry of father's occupation on the marriage cert is incorrect. Sometimes individuals did some bigging up; other times there was misunderstanding of the question being asked and also vicars did make mistakes. He could have simply replicated what he had recorded for the groom just to fill in the box, whilst my friend has a marriage cert where the entries for the fathers' occupations have been transposed.

Jay

Katarzyna
25-04-18, 13:56
Thank you all. The info about the men going over to work was interesting and I can understand that. As regards Hannah and George, I think I was unsure about them as the father George was not the occupation that was on the marriage certificate. But that does not mean the info was correct. There is a George age 15 0n the census for 1841 living in Lowestoft but I cant read it very well. The head is John Stanton publican.
regards
Ann

He is a male servant b in county, Ann.
Cannot see him on further censuses though.

Janet in Yorkshire
25-04-18, 13:57
Thank you all. The info about the men going over to work was interesting and I can understand that. As regards Hannah and George, I think I was unsure about them as the father George was not the occupation that was on the marriage certificate. But that does not mean the info was correct. There is a George age 15 0n the census for 1841 living in Lowestoft but I cant read it very well. The head is John Stanton publican.
regards
Ann

I think George is recorded as M.S. - male servant. If he was a skilled cabinet maker rather than just a jobbing carpenter, I would have thought he might have had, perhaps, to serve his time as an apprentice.

Jay

Janet in Yorkshire
25-04-18, 14:11
Looks like there are some interesting documents re Chipperfield at the Suffolk record office.
http://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/search?s=chipperfield&qa%5Bkeyword_reference_type%5D=0&qa%5Bpartner%5D=&qa%5Bidentifier%5D=&qa%5Bdate_from%5D=&qa%5Bdate_to%5D=&qa%5Btitle%5D=&qa%5Bperson%5D=&qa%5Bplace%5D=&qa%5Bsubject%5D=&qa%5Bformat%5D=&cbpt=0&cbav=2&cbadvsearchquery=

It seems that you can register and then maybe view some of the documents online. This could help sort out some of the Chipperfield families in your area of interest and aid with confirmation or elimination of some of the parties. There are wills, marriage contracts and lots of other stuff to delve into.

Jay

Katarzyna
25-04-18, 15:12
I think most can only be viewed at the RO Jay. You can order them to view there, not online. Some wills I have found open.

PhotoFamily
26-04-18, 04:31
I have the marriage certificate that says he is a cabinet maker. His father is George Edward Chipperfield also a cabinet maker.


You have the cert, but not the PR? Is there any chance that the PR survives, and can be accessed?

I too have a cert (from Ireland) and the fathers' occupations are incorrect. I think it was a transcription error. Wish I could retrieve the PR.

Oakum Picker
26-04-18, 08:12
The PR entry is online & has the same details.

Darksecretz
26-04-18, 09:29
If he was already married that surely would make him vague with his POB [trying to hide something?] If it were me I'd be plotting all the Chipperfield's in the areas of interest and seeing then what you have.

not much help, sorry.

Golden Oldie
26-04-18, 10:35
Thank you all very much. I think I will spend the day following all those in the area I am interested in and see what that brings.He may have things to hide. I will also try the Suffolk Record Office
Regards
Ann

Oakum Picker
26-04-18, 11:44
I'm quite interested in this Ann as an Edward CHIPPERFIELD married my first cousin 3x removed in Lowestoft in 1852. He was baptised in Kessingland in 1829. His father Edward is shown on this as an innkeeper but as a butcher on the marriage cert.

I think I have been looking at the marriage certs. of some of the other children of George & Hannah which show George's occupation as labourer. On the other hand there are so many in that area I might have the wrong ones.

I shan't be going to Suffolk again until Sep/Oct but I'd be happy to have a look at the baptism entries of George's & Hannah's other children to see what father's occupation is as I can't see them online.

Elaine
26-04-18, 19:49
There are some online for the couple and he is an ostler, horse keeper or labourer.

Golden Oldie
27-04-18, 17:18
Your help is appreciated. Glen I would like to take up your offer if you go to the records office later in the year

Regards Ann

Golden Oldie
28-04-18, 09:23
I have just noticed that I do not have the 1861 census for George and family. I cannot find it on Ancestry so could someone look somewhere else for me please.
George with wife Sophia and daughters Ellen. Mary, and maybe Charlotte. Possibly in St George In the East
Regards
Ann

Oakum Picker
28-04-18, 14:23
I've been looking at the CHIPPERFIELDs of N.E Sufffolk over the last couple of days to see if there is a connection between our families. I can't see one in the 2/3 generations we are looking at. I have found quite a lot on my line including quite a few newspaper articles, a pity they are only distantly related.

As Elaine said, there are baptisms for George's & Hannah's children & I think I've found most of them.
Listed are the ones I've found with birthplace, father's occupation & then his occupation at the marriage; nary a carpenter in sight unfortunately.

Hannah 1819 Sotterley Butcher m.1849 Lab
George 1820 Kirkley Butcher
Charlotte 1822 Kessingland Horse keeper m.1842 Lab
Edward 1824 Yarmouth Ostler
Mary Ann 1827 Yarmouth Ostler
Elizabeth 1832 Wangford
Elizabeth 1834 Kessingland Lab
Eliza 1838 Kessingland Lab
Emma 1841

I'm posting this but I now think it's irrelevant. I'll get my thoughts together, then post again.

Oakum Picker
28-04-18, 15:41
I'd been looking at siblings & found an exact age, birthplace & right line of work for Edward in 1871 living in Hammersmith.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LNDRG10_59_61-0312/12442722?

I'd already found a possible for him in 1861 living with a brother George, wife Hannah & several children but ages & places of birth weren't quite correct. However they were in Hammersmith.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/MDXRG9_25_26-0225/113129?

I then looked for them in 1851 -son George isn't with them in 1861
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/MDXHO107_1469_1469-0433/2124773?

I then had a look for the young George & found him here:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/SFKRG9_1185_1188-0595/17192438?s

Charlotte daughter & sister of the 2 Georges marries Robert COOK in 1842.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61043/4389270_01373/902479919?

This I believe is the Kirkley George's marriage - occupations fit.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_194835-00393/2170323?

So the long & the short of it is that I don't think the Kirkley George is yours as both Georges are in London in 1851/61. Hope I've explained myself.

Elaine
29-04-18, 20:58
Hi Ann

Am looking 1861 and nothing so far, Charlotte not on census

CHIPPERFIELD, CHARLOTTE ISABELLA FREWEN
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in LEWISHAM UNION Volume 01D Page 692

Katarzyna
30-04-18, 15:29
Did you have them on the 1851, Ann?
George Chipperfield
Relationship Head
Marital status Married
Age 30
Birth year 1821
Occupation Cabinet Maker
Birth County Suffolk
Street Wellington Passage
Registration district Stepney
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1552
Folio 869
Page 13
Record set 1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Sophia Chipperfield Wife Married Age 21 b 1830 British Colonist
Ellen Chipperfield Daughter Age 14 months b 1850 Ratcliff, Middlesex, England

Katarzyna
30-04-18, 15:47
Still can't see them on the 1861 though.

Katarzyna
30-04-18, 15:50
CHIPPERFIELD, ELLEN FREWIN
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 02 Page 549

Katarzyna
30-04-18, 16:41
Found this birth but not a burial?
CHIPPERFIELD, GEORGE mmn FREWEN
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in SAINT JAMES WESTMINSTER Volume 01A Page 298

Golden Oldie
30-04-18, 17:27
Hello everyone,
I have all the census bar 1861. Going by where Charlotte was born they must have moved to Plumstead then. I cannot find them on the census still. I wonder if they went to Ireland for some reason when the census was taken as Sophia the wife was Irish. What happens if you were not around for the census?
Kat I will look at the George you found thank you
Regards
Ann

Oakum Picker
01-05-18, 08:48
I may be completely on the wrong track here as I'm not sure how these things work but could George have been a civilian employee of the army? There are some pension records on FMP for a George Chipperfield listed as a carpenter at the Royal Laboratory which was in Woolwich where George was living at one time & not far from Plumstead, another residence. This might explain why he was in Ireland in 1847 & again c. 1853/4 and possibly there in 1861. Do you have any birth certs. for the children?

Katarzyna
01-05-18, 09:37
I did look to see if George Chipperfield Junior b 1855 may have died in Ireland but not there. Cannot see the birth for Mary b 1854 Ireland either. I can only see the marriage for father George Edward/Edmund Chipperfield 1847.

Katarzyna
01-05-18, 09:49
Had you found Mary A on 1881 as sister in religious order?

Relationship Sister
Marital status Single
Sex Female
Age 29
Birth year 1852
Birth place Ireland
Occupation Religious Order
24a Kensington 4 Houses & 1 Chapel
Registration district Kensington
RG11/23/14/23

Katarzyna
01-05-18, 09:59
Piece 407 Kent Greenwich Woolwich Arsenal (6) Woolwich Missing on 1861 census
Probable why we cannot find them unless they were in Ireland as Glen suggests.

Oakum Picker
01-05-18, 10:09
Yes the marriage was recorded because it was Protestant & fortunately a lot of the Dublin PRs are online. Civil Birth & Death records weren't kept until 1864/5 & if Mary was baptised I assume it would have been in a C of I church which are not online so the 2 events may have occurred but.....

Katarzyna
01-05-18, 10:36
Yes, you're right Glen of course; I'd forgotten that.

Katarzyna
01-05-18, 10:55
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol42/pp16-29#h3-0002
The Convent is Catholic. (1881 census). Maybe not the right Mary Chipperfield then.

Golden Oldie
01-05-18, 17:25
Mary was born in Kildare c1853 according to a later census, and married in Plumstead in 1879. I am thrilled to know they are showing as missing on the 1861 census as I was beginning to think it was me not doing it right.
Glen I do not have FMP. Does it show anything about where he lived regarding the pension records. I do not have any birth certificates for the children.
I think you are all right and they were in Ireland for the 1861 census, so I will go back to the time of Georges birth and work through all Georges. I can understand him saying he was born in the place he was living in, but to say Suffolk must have meant something

Regards Ann

Oakum Picker
03-05-18, 18:02
No indication to residence Ann & on closer examination, I'm not sure that the details really match up. If you PM me your email I'll send you the copies so you can decide for yourself.

Returning to the Suffolk aspect, when I first had a look I thought I was on to something when I found an Elizabeth having illegitimate children before marrying a carpenter in 1821 but no George. However I do think this is a possibility not that particular scenario but something similar.