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verana
09-03-18, 00:29
Hi to all.
I am trying to find where my mother in law came from, Julia Irene Tullett. She died in St Bernards hospital in Southall in 1965.
I have been searching the net but can find no matches ,apart from her marriage in Staines 1938. I need to pay to join some sites but am not sure which ones will be the most help .She had a sad life to be taken away from her children at a young age. and my husband was 18 before he was allowed to see her. I feel finding out about is all we can do to give her recognition and some meaning. I would appreciate it if anyone has any imformation to guide me . verana

kylejustin
09-03-18, 01:19
I would use a three prong approach: buy the marriage and death certificates for her from the general register office uk (GRO) website, or the local register office to where the events took place. It should cost you about £10 from either.

This gives you age from both records, and father's name and occupation from the marriage.

The other thing i would do is look for her under her married name in the 1939 register from findmypast.co.uk. This will give you her birthdate, in which you should be able to find her birth if she was born in england/wales.

In order to order a birth, death, or marriage from the GRO, you will need the reference numbers. You can find these on ancestry.com, findmypast, both of which require subscriptions; or from freebmd, which is the free births deaths and marriages index.

verana
09-03-18, 01:30
hi kylejustin
Thankyou so much for your reply. I will take your advice. also my husband has just said that his brother may have those certificates. I think that I have been trying to research to much at once. my tree as well. and felt that I was going around in circles. Thankyou again for your help. From here in chilly old England. verana

Janet in Yorkshire
09-03-18, 10:47
If she married a man called Eric and I've got the right lady, the 1939 register records her date of birth as 15 Nov 1917.
(Bear in mind that recorded "facts" may not always be correct.)

Jay

Janet in Yorkshire
09-03-18, 11:01
I think you may need to purchase (or get sight of) the marriage certificate, as this should have the name of the bride's father.

Jay

vera2013
09-03-18, 14:33
Couldn't find any bc for 1917 but as Janet says may not be correct. The death reg info on Ancestry gives a dob of 1910.

Vera

Janet in Yorkshire
09-03-18, 16:31
The only ref I could find for Julia I Tullett was the 1938 marriage; nothing for a possible birth. This led me to wonder if Tullett actually was her birth surname, hence my focus on the marriage cert which should indicate father's name and also marital status of the bride. (Depending on her year of birth, she could have had a previous marriage, or Mr Tullett could have been a step-father.) I was hoping that the details recorded on the marriage cert could, perhaps, suggest additional areas to investigate.
I realise that the surname Tullett lends itself to a whole range of mis-transcriptions.

Jay

vera2013
09-03-18, 17:19
The mc hopefully will give some clues as you say Jay! I believe Verana's bil may have a copy.

Read somewhere that Tullett is a Staffs name.

Vera

Janet in Yorkshire
09-03-18, 18:40
The mc hopefully will give some clues as you say Jay! I believe Verana's bil may have a copy.

Read somewhere that Tullett is a Staffs name.

Vera

I think Julia's husband's line might also have a complication :question:

Jay

verana
09-03-18, 20:12
hi Janet,

Thank you so much for your message. You have the right Julia as I have seen online eric Langley ...Stingemore. marriage staines 1938 . Eric Langley was my father in law and died in 1978 . I knew him and I take the name Langley. Eric Jack Langleys Mother was Alice Stingemore.

Before Eric died ,he seemed to want to disown Langley as his father . We being young at the time. Did not take much notice and thought it was based on some past anger. I know that Alice and Langley married after Eric s birth . Now the complications may suggest that there may be some truth to it.
Albeit the birth and marriage seem to be quite close. I really appreciate your help. I will get certificates soon hopefully.

verana
09-03-18, 20:35
Hi Vera.

Thankyou so much for your reply.

Julia was indeed married to Eric Jack Langley, 1938. The Stingemore surname on the marriage certificate was Alice Stingemore. Eric s mother. I met both of them Eric died in 1978 and Alice a few years before. My brother in Law was born 1940 6 years older than my husband. He was probably about 10 or 11 when Julia was admitted to St Bernards so we had hoped he would tell us more. but we feel he would rather forget. I expect he also has very sad memories of it all. There has always been a mention of either a still birth or infant death sibling. She was admitted with Parkinson s but treated as a mental illness ?? So for the safely of the family she never came home . We believe wartime sadness could be the root of her problem. Thankyou again from Verana.

Olde Crone Holden
09-03-18, 21:11
Verena

Do you have Julia's death cert for the actual cause of death? I think it is quite unusual for someone so young to develop Parkinson's.

OC

Janet in Yorkshire
09-03-18, 22:32
Verena

Do you have Julia's death cert for the actual cause of death? I think it is quite unusual for someone so young to develop Parkinson's.

OC

OC, I know of someone who was diagnosed with Parkinson's at around the age of 30. She was advised that the condition and pregnancy did not bode well together.
How very sad for Julia and her family.

Verena, I had worked out the Stingemore connection, but wasn't sure whether or not you knew about this.
As neither Vera nor I can find a birth registration for Julia I Tullett , I was wondering if her birth circumstances were similar??

Jay

verana
09-03-18, 23:49
hi Olde crone Holden
Thankyou for your reply. We don t have a death certificate but will have to get one. My husband says that they put pheumonia excuse spelling, as the cause of death. she started with shaking , they probably just put that to the diagnosis.
I know someone who had all the tests for Parkinson about 2004 . but I kept feeling she did not really have it . about a month before her death 2 years after diagnosis. the family were told that she had a mimicer of it. but they said they still would have treated it the same. who knows the truth really. Julia had apparently had a head injury previously which could have resulted in damage. certainly she seemed to suffer from mental illness when I last saw her. verana

verana
09-03-18, 23:52
I meant when my husband last saw her.

Olde Crone Holden
09-03-18, 23:57
Thankyou Verana, I agree that death causes often don't tell you much about what was really going on. I expect I would be mentally ill too if I had been locked up away from my children for years, the poor soul.

OC

verana
09-03-18, 23:58
thanks janet. My husband always believed she came from Yorkshire as my father and ancestors did . but Julia s past is just heresay. It will take me a bit of time in getting to grips with this research ,but I find it very interesting and you have all been so kind in your help.

verana
10-03-18, 00:19
hi O C

I totally agree with you. and throughout my marriage I have tried to include her in my thoughts and draw my own conclusions to how she felt. And that by spending my time on trying to trace her background could honour her in some way . After all she could have lived to see her 2 boys ,her grandson and great grandson grow up.

I am a very spiritual person and also believe in the progress of the soul.

My quote . Does thou love life, thou waste not time for time is the stuff that life is made of. I believe John Donne wrote that

Olde Crone Holden
10-03-18, 00:32
Verana

Just before I got married, my father told me that I might want to consider whether or not to have children, as " there is insanity in the family". Turned out that a great great uncle came home from WW1 with what we now call PTSD and spent the rest of his life in an asylum. His wife was so ashamed of this that she told their four children and everyone else that he was dead. Things were so different back then.

I am glad that you want to honour her life and existence. I feel the same way about some of my ancestors who suffered unimaginable tragedies in their lives.

OC

verana
10-03-18, 00:55
Aw o c
Eric went down 3 times in the water whilst in the royal marines when they were torpedoed . He was shell shocked for ages. so sad. We don t know how lucky a lot of us are. we can choose to remember the good times but how must it be when war makes you have to suffer memories so tragic that you can' t shut them out. But he never gave up on Julia and visited her weekly for years. War took away what should have been the best years of his life. but he loved his sons and our son and never said an unkind word to any of us. We always laughed at the way he would go off to work then shout through the letter box. The roads are treacherous . every winter my husband reminds me of that :rolleyes:

vera2013
10-03-18, 01:19
The mc hopefully will give some clues as you say Jay!


Just to say this remark was because I referred to Jay as Janet. No hidden meanings. However things may not be as at first seen.

Maybe we can help in Julia now not being forgotten if that is something the family want.

Vera

verana
14-03-18, 03:10
hi Janet .
found Julia Irene tullett s marriage certificate and it looks that you have it right. that her year of birth is 1917. as she is 21 in 1938 marriage. Eric is 25. Her father is Fred Tullett Captain royal engineers. deceased on the m c . I have been hours and hours searching but to no avail as to where they came from. even war sites don t seem to match any . As he is deceased by 1938 I cannot look him up on the 1939 reg. Julia by then is in ashford middlesx.
Any suggestions to where I can go from hear. I hope that you have had a nice day . verana

kylejustin
14-03-18, 06:34
Can't see a birth for a julia I. Tullett in england. I wonder if she was born in ireland maybe? Or tullett was a step father, like janet suggested.

kylejustin
14-03-18, 06:35
Also, who were the wittnesses at marriage?

Katarzyna
14-03-18, 10:35
There is only one death for a Fred Tullett between her birth 1917 and 1938 marriage and he was born 1856.
Deaths Dec 1933
Tullet Frederick 77 Rochford 4a 736

Edit: Retired dairy farmer on 1911 census Prittlewell, Westcliff On Sea, Essex,

Janet in Yorkshire
14-03-18, 11:45
Thank you for adding the info about Julia's father, verana. It SHOULD help us with trying to find out a bit more about Julia's origins.
So far, the nearest I can find in military records is Fred Lewis/Louis Tillett, who served in the Boer War and married in South Africa in 1907. (I also found an army overseas birth registration for a son.) This man was born in Norfolk - he also served in WW1 but was in the ranks, not an officer.
The spelling of the surname differs by one letter, so he may not be connected with Julia. Or, it wouldn't be the first time we'd come across someone bigging up the status of a father/step-father; or recording a step-father as father; or, alternatively, just inventing a father on a marriage cert. I have several examples of the last two in my own family research!

Have to go out now, but will try to look in later in the day. Hope someone can find something to help you.

Jay

margaretmarch
14-03-18, 13:30
Looking at the England and Wales Birth Index no trace for Julia I Tullett so searched fro Julia I ???????

found

Julia I Beech
Mother's Maiden Surname: Elks
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Newcastle L
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 81

Julia I M Tozer
Mother's Maiden Surname: Littler
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 118

Will look to see if I can eliminate these two.

Margaret

margaretmarch
14-03-18, 13:33
Marriages found

Julia I Beech
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1941
Registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Spouse: John H Millington
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 161

Julia I M Tozer
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1940
Registration district: Woolwich
Inferred County: Kent
Spouse: Cyril F Perry
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 3458

So they are out of the equation.

Margaret

margaretmarch
14-03-18, 14:31
What is the address for Julia Irene on her marriage certificate?

Margaret

vera2013
14-03-18, 15:58
Margaret

I too looked at the Julia I Beech for Dec Q 1917. Stretching it a bit I noted that the marriage of Gladys Elkes to Norman Beech was also Dec Q 1917. I wondered if perhaps Julia I registered Beech was in fact Julia I Tullitt by Fred Tullitt but he was not on the scene at the time of the birth.

The 1939 has Norman and Gladys together in Newcastle Under Lyme with children Prudence Doris b 1920 and one other covered who could be the the Norman Beech b 1918 to mmn Elkes. Or not at all.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=rmb4967&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=julia%20I&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Beech&gsln_x=0&msbdy=1917&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=1&uidh=326&pcat=BMD_MARRIAGE&h=57058694&dbid=8753&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

Or perhaps not

Julia I Beech
Married 1st Q 1941
Newcastle under Lyme, Staffs
John H Millington
6b 161

Vera

margaretmarch
14-03-18, 16:18
Margaret

I too looked at the Julia I Beech for Dec Q 1917. Stretching it a bit I noted that the marriage of Gladys Elkes to Norman Beech was also Dec Q 1917. I wondered if perhaps Julia I registered Beech was in fact Julia I Tullitt by Fred Tullitt but he was not on the scene at the time of the birth.

The 1939 has Norman and Gladys together in Newcastle Under Lyme with children Prudence Doris b 1920 and one other covered who could be the the Norman Beech b 1918 to mmn Elkes. Or not at all.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=rmb4967&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=julia%20I&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Beech&gsln_x=0&msbdy=1917&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=1&uidh=326&pcat=BMD_MARRIAGE&h=57058694&dbid=8753&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

Or perhaps not

Julia I Beech
Married 1st Q 1941
Newcastle under Lyme, Staffs
John H Millington
6b 161

Vera

That's the marriage I found too.

I also found a Frederick George Evans with wife Julia and three children listed on his WW1 papers one of whom was Julia Irene born 15 Aug 1917. I found Fred and wife Julia in 1939 with a son Frederick born 1911 and a redacted line.

I was hopeful of this but if Julia Irene Tullett said father dead in 1938 I have discounted them for the moment.

Margaret

margaretmarch
14-03-18, 16:23
Here's the link to the Service record for Frederick George Evans and family

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/gbrmil1914r4pt2_138552-00591?pid=4168289&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DsWP21101%26_phstart%3DsuccessSour ce%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3DJulia%2520Irene%26 gsfn_x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1917%26cp%3D0%26catbucket%3Dr stp%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dar6%26pcat%3D39%26h%3D4168 289%26dbid%3D1219%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=sWP21101&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=gbrmil1914r4pt2_138552-00591

verana
14-03-18, 23:06
What is the address for Julia Irene on her marriage certificate?

Margaret

Thank you Margaret. Julia' s address on the mc, was The Royal hart . Church Rd . Ashford Middlesex. She may have lodged there , worked there or both. The witness 's were Eric s Parents. They had a child in 1940 then my husband in 1946. and apparently maybe a still birth or infant death sometime before or in between the 2 boys. Verana

verana
14-03-18, 23:13
it is written on the mc that father was deceased but you never really know because my husband said he never heard any mention of his maternal grandparents. he always thought his mother came from Bradford or up north somewhere.

verana
14-03-18, 23:29
thank you katarzyna that one sounds interesting as well . It was not that unusual for the father to be quite old as my father was 70 when I was born.
as I have said, nothing was mentioned about her parents so they could have been from Essex originally. If we can get her a copy of her birth certificate that should show her mother I presume. When was the death year of that fred

verana
14-03-18, 23:40
Thank you Vera.

The same name and birth year does raise a question . I saw a Fred Tillet but discarded it. but last night I saw that Eric s mother s surname on her marriage certicate shows Slingimore not Stingemore as believed. also a line through 1915 which could have been done as a cover up as eric was born in 1914. thank god attitudes have changed .

verana
14-03-18, 23:47
Thankyou for the reply kyle

the witness s on the mc were Eric s parents. why do they only ask for fathers name even if he is deceased .

verana
14-03-18, 23:50
Thank you janet . I am amazed at how much help you all have been giving me . I don t feel so overwhelmed now .

verana
14-03-18, 23:52
Thankyou for the reply kyle

the witness s on the mc were Eric s parents. why do they only ask for fathers name even if he is deceased .

Janet in Yorkshire
15-03-18, 00:19
Thankyou for the reply kyle

the witness s on the mc were Eric s parents. why do they only ask for fathers name even if he is deceased .

It's been that way since civil registration was introduced in 1837. In those days, women were merely daughters and then wives; as non-men, they had no rights or status of their own. She was Miss Smith, daughter of Mr John Smith and after marriage Mrs Fred Bloggs.

Jay

verana
15-03-18, 00:26
I like that Janet . I shall go to bed with a smile on my face. :D who knows I might look 10 years younger in the morning . thank you fun fairy,x

verana
15-03-18, 00:31
You must have the Yorkshire humour as my old dad would have answered just like that. he was from Yorkshire . When I was a young teenager I would rush in to tell him . Guess what dad Mr so and so said someone down the road has died . I thought I was being grown up. he would just say, so what any idiot can die.