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Heir hunter and how to apply an intestate will

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  • Heir hunter and how to apply an intestate will

    I hope someone can advise please.

    I have been contacted by an heir hunter about a relation to my great-aunt. The relation died intestate and my great-aunt is also dead. I was the executor for my great-aunt.

    Firstly, I am assuming that the intestate relation must have died before my great-aunt otherwise the estate could not be passed on. Is that correct?


    Secondly, assuming no other relations are involved, would the intestate estate be divided up under the terms of my great-aunt's will?


    Thirdly, if the above is all correct, if my great-aunt's will said "10k to Joe Bloggs, the residue to charity", how would this apply to the intestate estate?


    Thanks.

  • #2
    Not sure if I have understood correctly but it someone dies intestate then strict legal rules apply to the distribution of their estate. A dead person cannot inherit but if there are no closer proscribed relatives then sometimes that deceased person's descendants can inherit. I think England and Wales only recognises 3 generations either side of the deceased, any further distance and the money goes to the Crown or the DuchBut supposing your great aunt was indeed the only beneficiary by intestacy law, then any money coming to her should be administered as per the terms of her will.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with OC.

      I only know from watching Heir Hunters but it did explain everything.

      I'm not sure if it matters who died first. It will just go down the line for 3 generations as was said above.
      Lin

      Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

      Comment


      • #4
        I am quite surprised if the heir hunter has given you details of the deceased or of possible blood connections with yourself or your relative. The few cases I know of, the heir hunter has not revealed details of the deceased nor any possible relationships with the contact. Presumably because they want the business and their commission, rather than divulging information which allows interested parties to sort things out themselves.
        Is the person who contacted you from a firm of heir hunters or from a solicitor dealing with the estate of the deceased?

        "I have been contacted by an heir hunter about a relation to my great-aunt. The relation died intestate and my great-aunt is also dead. I was the executor for my great-aunt." Perhaps the heir hunter is hoping that you can supply information about possible relatives of the deceased, who may, or may not, also be relatives of your great-aunt or yourself.
        Did they write, phone or visit?

        Jay
        Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 04-02-18, 14:34.
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


        • #5
          Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.

          The heir hunter has contacted me by phone and they are keen to visit me. They have not given me any details of the deceased (as you would probably expect) other than to say they there is a connection with my great-aunt (who is dead) and they have contacted me because I was the executor for my great-aunt's estate. They are asking for 25% of the intestate estate and they will want me to sign a contract if/when they meet me before going any further.

          Unfortunately at this stage I am making various assumptions. One of these scenarios, for example, could be that my great-aunt had a sister that no one knew about. Following this idea forward, if the sister died some years ago, before my great-aunt died and there is no other person in line to inherit, would the sister's estate be then distributed using the terms of my great-aunt's will?

          If the assumption above is correct and my great-aunt's will said "10k to Joe Bloggs, the residue to charity", how could this be applied to the sister's estate, if, for example the estate is only worth 5k?

          I think I will have to get some legal advice first before proceeding but am unsure who to go to. Also, I am not sure where I stand if I don't agree to sign up with the heir hunter as presumably they have identified a link now back to me as executor.

          Apologies, all rather confusing, but am keen to get a better understanding before contacting the heir hunter again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't worry about feeling confused. I think we all would if we were contacted over the phone and not knowing who it is they are talking about.

            I'm not sure how you can know who it is though or even when they died. I think the government can't take they money until 30 years after the death so it could be anyone related to your Great Aunt who had died in that time frame.

            The only thought I have is that you try to see if Citizens Advice could help you.

            If this person had property they could be leaving a large sum but them again it could be a couple of thousand. I don't think they would go to the trouble of looking for you for less than that as £200 would only make them £500.
            Lin

            Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Lin.

              You are right about not knowing who has dies and I have no way of finding out unless I start ordering birth/marriage certificates, but from what I have read this could be a very difficult and time consuming process.

              According to the heir hunter they don't know the value of the estate as this information is not released by the government until a valid claim is made.

              The heir hunter has said to me that I have a legal obligation to distribute any money due from this intestate estate, but am wondering what happens if, for example, I say I am not prepared to give the heir hunter 25%, then it would be a stalemate.

              I think my starting point tomorrow will be a call to a will/probate solicitor and/or the CAB.

              Thanks again

              Comment


              • #8
                A list of unclaimed estates held by the Treasury Solicitor. Last updated 26th March 2024


                I think this is a link for the list heir hunters use to locate cases. You might like to try doing a little sleuthing yourself to see if you can get any clues.
                From watching the heir hunter programmes some years ago, I think the address of the deceased played a large part in their decision as to whether or not a case may be worth pursuing, once the value of the estate stopped appearing in the list.

                Jay
                Janet in Yorkshire



                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                Comment


                • #9
                  My only experience of heir hunters is a firm which contacted me some years ago. In our case I and my various cousins had willingly signed their agreement but a will was eventually found so their work brought them no profit.
                  You ask abput the scenario where your aunt specified
                  "10k to Joe Bloggs, the residue to charity"
                  I would take this to apply to her whole estate,including any amount now added to the estate from this unknown relative, who must have predeceased her for the heir hunters to have approached you as her executor rather in your own right.
                  My amateur opinion is that the 10k can only be paid once to Joe Bloggs so any amount which is added to the estate will be added to the residue going to charity.
                  Judith passed away in October 2018

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bona vacantia only list estates over the value of £5k.

                    The Heir Hunter is misleading you. You only have an obligation to administer your great aunt's estate. You are not the Heir Hunter nor are you the beneficiary of your great aunt and so you are under no obligation legally to make the Heir Hunter's job easy.

                    Several things you can do. Do nothing, in which HH has to apply to the Treasury with the names of all legal beneficiaries. The money then comes to you. Or you can make HH job easier by giving him the info and co operation he needs for a reduced percentage! Up to him whether he wants to. Or you could alert the charity named in your GAs will and let them do the work and bear the cost. If Joe Bloggs has already received £10 grand then there is nothing more for him in need the terms of the will.

                    OC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Olde Crone Holden;2621804]Bona vacantia only list estates over the value of £5k.

                      Is that right OC as my relative never left nearly that much, but was listed on it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Depends when it was, Val. I think BV changed the rules at some point but I cannot remember when.

                        OC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I really appreciate all the replies and information provided, particularly the last 2 from JudithM and Old Crone Holden. You have understood exactly my questions and the answers/opinions are very helpful.

                          I actually simplified the point about Joe Bloggs. My GA's original will left specific amounts to various members of the family with the residue (approx 90% to charity). My conscience is telling me I should resolve this additional intestate estate as it sounds like it will all go to charity, but as suggested it may be worth getting the charity involved so they can pursue it and maybe they wouldn't be so keen to give away 25% to an heir hunter!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            AB

                            You have it in one! The charity won't be keen to give away 25% and of course they have their own solicitors to pursue their own search. As the will of your GA specified specific amounts and that has presumably been administered then your duty is only to pass on any more money that comes your way to the charity involved.

                            It would have been a different matter of course if the will had specified percentages. This happened to me some years ago when I executed the will of a friend, all done and dusted and distributed, executor's account closed down and so on. Then some years later I was contacted by a financial institution which had a sum of money due to the deceased. It was relatively small but caused me no end of hassle as it had to be distributed in percentages. As you well know, executors do not get paid for the work they do and that is why I would advise you to exercise passive resistance over this one!

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's really good advice, thanks again.

                              I think my first step is to speak to the HH to confirm the facts then let them know proceeds from the intestate estate will most likely all be going to charity. Not sure what their reaction will be but I will then probably contact the charities (there were two) to see if they want to follow up with the HH.......which I guess they will. As the HH will not disclose to me the intestate name, I am sure some negotiating will need to take place between the HH and the charity!

                              It was Interesting to read of your experience of additional money after the estate had been finalised. I have kept the executor account open for a few years after finalizing just in case!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                We had a situation years ago where an unmarried female cousin of OH's father died and left her money in percentages to the 20 or so first cousins or their offspring.

                                OH's father was dead by that time, so our first inkling was a letter from a lawyer asking if OH knew where his sister was living.

                                The cousin must have amassed quite the estate, because I think in the end we got around £6,000 .............. but it came in 3 lots over a period of about 5 years!

                                The lawyer and executor(s) must have been driven mad!


                                The advice over here is NOT to leave specific amounts to people or organisations, as you really do not know how much money will really be in the estate at your death. Too little or too much both cause problems.

                                The suggestion is either parts or percentages.

                                Our will is in parts ...... 4 parts here, 3 parts there, 1 part to be divided between xxx etc etc etc
                                My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                                Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Yes, the advice from solicitors is always to leave percentages and I understand why, but in the particular will I was involved with executing, the extra amount was less than £4k, but I still had to pay inheritance tax and distribute cheques for £20 in several cases where someone had been left 1%! In fact one person still hasn't cashed their £20 cheque, meaning I have to keep the account open AND keep a huge pile of paperwork some 22 years after the person died.

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Has any other Heir Hunters been in touch? If not then perhaps the amount involved will be quite small.

                                    Seeing that you aren't a beneficiary I would imagine it wouldn't be legal to sign away someone else's money.

                                    Reminds me of a relative who inherited a extremely small amount which they received as a cheque, unfortunately they live in Australia so after paying it into the bank, paying their charges and exchange rate they got about equivalent to about £10.
                                    Last edited by JBee; 05-02-18, 10:10.



                                    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Thanks for the additional replies.

                                      No other heir hunter has been in touch yet, although my understanding is the treasury do not disclose the value of the estate until a valid claim is made.

                                      As it appears the only beneficiaries will now be the 2 charities, I expect they will not be so keen to give away 25% to an heir hunter, but then again as I am the executor for my great-aunt, I am not sure who has the right to say what an heir hunter can receive. As I have read in previous posts, 75% of something is better than 100% of nothing. When I discuss with the charities I expect they will have a legal team that may well do want to do some family tree research themselves at their own expense.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        JBee

                                        Not suggesting AB should sign away some one else's money, I'm suggesting that the charities be given the opportunity to negotiate with the HH on their own behalf. They may well be capable of discovering who has died for themselves, thus sparing AB lots of unpaid, unrewarded hassle. Any money due will of course have to go through ABs hands but the cheque writing is the easy bit!

                                        OC

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