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  • maria butler / new clues

    thought I better start a new thread if thats okay with the extra info I now have on Maria BUTLER b15 jan 1870 Woolwich.

    The additional info now is that Maria and Charles BUTLER b 1867 woolwich were in the Plumstead workhouse for a week before being admitted to the metropolitan district school.
    When Charles returns to the workhouse it quotes his brother William at 2 Howard Place Powis Street Woolwich.

    1881 census has William BUTLER and wife Ellen at 3 Howards Yard Powis Street.

    I have often dismissed this one when I was looking for the father as William because there are several children with them so didnt make sense that some would be in a school and some at home, never thought of this one as a brother.

    I have looked at the marriages and it seems likely that its William BUTLER and Ellen DOGGETT in 1873.

    Tried moving forward a census or 2 incase Charles reappeared with them but cant seem to follow them into 1911.

    Tried to trace William backwards to see if I can find his parents but not having much luck with a common name!!!

    I was thinking of ordering the marriage certificate of William and Ellen, what do you think? Would that give any clues? May help with the fathers name but Maria says her father is William on her marriage certificate so may just be a waste of money!!!
    Anybody else any ideas please?


    and thanks to everybody that has helped with these snippets of new info

  • #2
    What occupation does Maria's father give on her marriage cert? Where was Maria living? Also date and place of marriage and Witnesses?
    Kat

    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

    Comment


    • #3
      That marriage is in the Ancestry Parish Records so you don't need to buy the certificate. Do you have access to Ancestry? https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...&usePUBJs=true

      William Butler says his father is David Butler, labourer!!! AND a witness makes the mark of David Butler, although that could be another brother?

      Anne

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Gloryer

        Not sure what info you have and also what you are trying to find exactly?

        Are you trying to go backwards if so the GRO has Maria born Mar qtr 1870 and Charles born sep qut 1867 both with mmn Pearce. Are these the right children. If so will look further for you.

        If you are only trying to go forward will look at that for you.

        There are quite a few children born Butler mm Doggett on the GRO as well.
        Lin

        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post
          Hi Gloryer

          Not sure what info you have and also what you are trying to find exactly?

          Are you trying to go backwards if so the GRO has Maria born Mar qtr 1870 and Charles born sep qut 1867 both with mmn Pearce. Are these the right children. If so will look further for you.

          If you are only trying to go forward will look at that for you.

          There are quite a few children born Butler mm Doggett on the GRO as well.
          well never found those before, are these new records come to light? Are they for the greenwich/woolwich area?

          Comment


          • #6
            BUTLER, CHARLES mmn PEARCE
            GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 592

            BUTLER, MARIA mmn PEARCE
            GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 621

            It's the right qtr for Maria with that birth date you have.
            Kat

            My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

            Comment


            • #7
              What about this one Gloria

              1871 Piece: 742 Folio: 117 Page Number: 31
              Looks like 47 Giffin street
              Registration district: Greenwich
              Sub-registration district: St Paul Deptford
              William Buller 41 dock labourer
              Jane Buller 38
              William Buller 14
              Andrew Buller 12
              Jane Buller 5
              Charles Buller 3
              George Buller 10 Months

              someone has given this as alternative name Butler
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

              Comment


              • #8
                Have you got Charles and Maria in 1881

                In a South Metropolitan District School in Sutton in Surrey. On Ancestry.
                Lin

                Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                Comment


                • #9
                  From Ancestry

                  27 Feb 1854 St Pancras Church Middlesex

                  William Bulter full age bat. Laboured Ferdinand St William Butler. Dead.
                  Maria Pearce full age spin. Ferdinand St John Pearce. Dead.

                  Nor sure if we are going down the correct route. Perhaps someone with more skill than me can put the image on for me.

                  If it is right there are probably more children but will have a look tomorrow.
                  Lin

                  Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here you go

                    31280_195026-00184.jpg
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Picked up these names for 4 years after, nothing for Pierce

                      BUTLER, ARTHUR PEARCE
                      GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 370
                      BUTLER, THOMAS PEARCE
                      GRO Reference: 1854 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 380
                      BUTLER, WILLIAM PEARCE
                      GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 27
                      BUTLER, EMMA PEARCE
                      GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 367
                      Elaine

                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just checked Pearce this time

                        BUTLER, JOHN PEARCE
                        GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 478
                        BUTLER, ELIZA PEARCE
                        GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 501
                        BUTLER, GEORGE PEARCE
                        GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 573
                        Elaine

                        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          the one thats born Hampstead is the one that went onto marry SHURETY and is on a later census living with her family as mrs shurety. This is where the confusion comes in as they look like the ones I am after. Mine first appear on 1881 census in the metropolitan district school, so far I have not found them in 1871.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post
                            Hi Gloryer

                            Not sure what info you have and also what you are trying to find exactly?

                            Are you trying to go backwards if so the GRO has Maria born Mar qtr 1870 and Charles born sep qut 1867 both with mmn Pearce. Are these the right children. If so will look further for you.

                            If you are only trying to go forward will look at that for you.

                            There are quite a few children born Butler mm Doggett on the GRO as well.
                            that maria butler is the one born hampstead and is on hampstead heath on the census living in a caravan as her dad is a showman and later she marrys SHURETY, mine marrys William Pearson. I am still trying to find her parents so trying to work backwards!!
                            Thanks

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ok, let's start again. You have william butler's address from the school records, and it matches the 1881 census. Do the children of william on the census match with the birth registrations with mother's name doggett? If they do, his father is given as david butler on that marriage registration.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                william butler that living at howards yard powis street in 1881 appears to be an older brother of Maria and Charles

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  so I now need to find this William butler on an earlier census with a father David.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I think this needs to be read in conjunction with this thread - https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...es#post2621316

                                    I thought it had been established that Charles and Maria were given as illegitimate when admitted to the school and weren't the same ones as the Charles and Maria in the caravan with parents?
                                    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      A couple of trees on Ancestry have William Butler b1851 Blackheath linked to parents David Butler b 1823 Ditteridge, Wilt s and Emily Tanner b 1834 nr Box, Wilts.

                                      The couple married 1857 in Charlton so William b 1851 possibly not a Butler.

                                      Can't see them in 1861.

                                      Emily is widowed by 1871, David dying in 1866. She is living 9 George St, Woolwich with

                                      William b 1852 Greenwich
                                      John b 1857
                                      David b 1858
                                      George 1861
                                      Robert Reuben 1863 (twin of B
                                      Hy Worthy who presumably died)
                                      Mary Ann 1865
                                      No Charles or Maria

                                      Can't see Emily in 1881, possibly remarried

                                      Vera

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        These are the three baptisms for William, John and David confirming David as father.

                                        Baptisms 1859.JPG

                                        I'm wondering if Charles and Maria are Emily's illegitimate children after the death of David?
                                        Last edited by Katarzyna; 28-01-18, 10:20.
                                        Kat

                                        My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                                        Comment

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