Dead end with my patrilineal line

[AdamMcGregor]

Hello,

I appear to have hit a dead end with my research, and I have no idea where to go next. The last Mc/MacGregor I can trace is Simon, claiming to be born around 1789, in Contin, Ross. On his 1859 death certificate, his second son, Neil, gives his parents as Alexander McGregor and Mary Grant.

However, there are no records of an Alexander McGregor and a Mary Grant. I have searched ScotlandsPeople. No luck. Contacted the Clan Gregor forum. Nothing. I have even attempted to search other death records for possible siblings, but all that is provided is the mother's maiden name.

It is well-known that the MacGregors were forced to adopt different names when the surname was proscribed, but Simon would have been born more than 10 years after the ban on the name was lifted. Could he have changed his surname to the original? Possibly.

All I know for certain is that he married Margaret McKenzie as 'Simon McGrigor' in Fodderty on the 27th of December 1811. As such a famous Scottish family, I would love to trace my patrilineal line beyond 2 centuries ago. My mum's surname is German Jewish, and I haven't even got beyond 1826 with that one.

I would appreciate any help or advice,

Adam

[Caroline]

It's hard to get very far back beyond that in Scotland, I speak from personal experience, but there is lots of advice round - Chris Paton is one person who has a blog and writes books on the subject/:

http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/p/about-chris-paton.html

[Elwyn]

Looking at the Contin Church of Scotland records on Scotlandspeople, the earliest recorded baptism was in 1778. There were only 16 baptisms, for just 4 surnames, recorded in the 22 years between 1778 and 1800, which suggests to me the records may be incomplete. That may be why you cannot find the baptism or the parents marriage. The records possibly don’t exist.

[Uncle John]

Survival of parish records depends on how good the various ministers were at looking after them. I remember a TV programme several years ago where old parish records were found in an abandoned house.

[PhotoFamily]

I've listened to a professional genealogist talk about estate records in Scotland - that are still on the estate, usually stacked up in some room, collecting dust. And the only way to get to them is to be there.

You've missed out on the big sales on autosomal and Y-DNA testing, but they'll come around again.

[AdamMcGregor]

Thanks for all the feedback.

If I was to hire a genealogist, would they be able to access such records such as estate records? Or is that usually done purely by a keen individual?

Also, what would DNA testing show me? Would it give me known ancestors?

Thanks.

[kylejustin]

I'd say you won't get further back unless there is some sort of clan genealogy your line might be recorded in. Records in the highlands started a lot later than in the lowlands. Usually 1780-1830 is the date of the eldest surviving records. My families are untraceable prior to the 1830's in lochalsh and 1820's in iona, though the records begin in the late 18th century. I'm lucky my matheson line is included in the "genealogy of the mathesons" an attempt in the 19th century to draw up a clan wide genealogy. It was compiled from manuscripts and contemporary and historical oral histories. It's also unverifiable.

[PhotoFamily]

If I was to hire a genealogist, would they be able to access such records such as estate records? Or is that usually done purely by a keen individual?

The man that I was talking to had been paid by people who wanted family history done. He had traveled from the US to Scotland. He evidently had had success, but there are no guarantees - e.g., can you identify which estate your ancestor worked on, has the estate kept those records or has it had a disaster (e.g., fire). I don't think the genealogist is in the business anymore.

Also, what would DNA testing show me? Would it give me known ancestors?

Whether it's record research or genetic research, there are no guarantees in life. I was fortunate with my father's Y-DNA - it proved a family rumor about a surname change, and it showed that my ancestor from Donegal had a paternal line going back to Devon/Cornwal - but not specific names/datesl.

That is not a typical result. I recruited a cousin on a different ancestral line to do Y-DNA testing - I still don't have a surname match for him, nor any other 0-step matches at Y-37. Nonetheless, I have good reason to think that his paternal line is solid.

You may wish to contact this group:

http://www.clangregor.com

I think you can see this page:

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/mac-gregor/about

Please note: I like ftDNA a lot (and I have not received any compensation from them). I would choose (and have chosen) to take Y-DNA testing to them.
But. If you decide to do autosomal testing, I would suggest a progression of: AncestryDNA, then take that raw data to gedmatch.com and familytreeDNA.com. The size of AncestryDNA's database cannot be ignored. I have also had good results with 23andme.com testing/database. Analyzing your sample is just a part of the cost of doing DNA testing. The comparison in the database is what might lead you to new information for your family tree.

And there's a usual warning: sometimes people do genetic testing and find out their ancestors are not who they thought they were (such as adoptions or relationships outside the marriage of record or close family members that were not previously known like half-siblings).

[Olde Crone Holden]

Of course, even if you do find a genetic match it doesn't mean they know any more than you do, often the contrary in fact. However, I did accidentally stumble over a small surname study of a small fishing village in Scotland which showed that 90% of the women living there who had historical connections to the place were very closely related. A mixture of written records and hearsay led back to one woman alive about 1600 who came from a very small fishing village in Iceland with an identical mt-dna. That is about the best I can do on that line, knowing that I am probably part of that female clan rather than a strict and proven descendancy.

OC