Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

looking for Adèle Breton Kirouac

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • looking for Adèle Breton Kirouac

    Hi I'm a new member and I'm trying to get informations on my grand mother Adèle Breton dite Kirouac (Kerouac) The ancestor of the Kirouac (Kerouac) (Kervoac) Family in Canada Was Urbain-François Le Bihan de Kervoac born in Huelgoat around 1702. On is quest to Nouvelle-France Canada he changes is name to Alexandre.
    His first appearance in official records was his signature as a witnessto the wedding of a friend in 1727. This he signed as Hyacinthe Louis AlexandreLe Bihan de Kervoac
    .
    Alexandre’s
    free and easy existence was to change
    in 1732. Arriving back in the village of Cap St-Ignace, some 40 miles east of Quebec, he was approached by members of the family of an unmarried twenty-year-old woman, Louise Bernier, who had given birth to a son, Simon-Alexandre, eight months earlier. The baby, she insisted, was Alexandre’s and so, a few days later, on October 22, 1732,he found himself being married to Louise.
    he signed his name as Maurice-Louis Le Bris de Kerouac. The name LeBihan had vanished, never again to appear in Canadian records. But whydid he become Le Bris?
    , when his second son,Jacques was born in 1733. Shortly after the birth of his third son, Louis, in1735, the couple left the Bernier home and settled in Kamouraska,
    But Alexandre de Kerouac, as he was now known, was not to live there forlong. He died in his mid-thirties on March 6, 1736. His wife Louise survived tothe grand age of 91, and their eldest son, Simon-Alexandre, went on to fatherthirteen children of his own, becoming the main branch in the Kerouac familytree. This is were I stand now trying to sort all these Names, How can I find my grand mother parents. Records are not that easy to locate.

  • #2
    Hello Pierrot and welcome to our forum.

    I'm afraid I got a bit "lost" in your post, so perhaps you could clarify a few things for us.
    1) "How can I find my grand mother parents. Records are not that easy to locate."
    I take it that your grandmother's birth name was Adèle Kirouac (Kerouac)? However, you have given us no information to work with, such as place and date of birth. If Adèle is deceased, then you can post on the forum what you know of her, but bear in mind that details of living people should not be posted here.
    If what you are searching for are the parents of Adèle, then I'm sure that someone on the forum will probably be able to suggest places where you can search for this information.

    2)As you have posted a lot of information about (or a pedigree of) an eighteenth century Kirouac family, I am wondering if it is actually the forebears of Adèle whom you seek, rather than her mother and father? In which case, how far back have you traced Adèle and what documentation have you found?
    Or is it that you are researching Adèle Kirouac and have come across a pedigree of the earlier Kirouac family and are hoping to connect Adèle to this family?

    If you can supply a few details of exactly what you are hoping to find out, then I'm sure forum members will try to help you, if they can.

    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 21-12-17, 09:47.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    Comment


    • #3
      For reference, an earlier query about Adele -



      Jay
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


      • #4
        Pierrot, a new member, Gabby has made a suggestion on the thread where you originally posted here

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Pierrot,

          I think the first and most important thing you should bear in mind is that if you want to trace your ancestors correctly, you should trace backwards, starting with absolutely definite information, not conjectures.

          The historical information you give about possible ancestors is interesting, but if you try to trace your ancestors forwards from that, it's not only going to be very difficult, you're also liable to make serious mistakes. There are loads of Kerouacs in the Canadian records, and they may be all related, but you can't be certain of that.

          You said in your PM to me that your grandmother Adèle Breton dite Kirouac was born in Orono, Maine, USA. Can you tell us where that information comes from? I know Adèle said in the 1911 census that she was born in the USA, but in the two previous censuses she says she was born in Quebec.

          I've had another look at the family now, and I've found a bit of extra information; nothing definite, but it's interesting, and might give you another avenue to explore.

          In 1911, according to the census, Charles, Adèle and family were living in Bellechasse. I noticed that there was a Kérouac family living next-door-but-one to them: Maxime Kérouac, born June 1849, and his wife whose name is hard to read, but looks like Eraïose.

          I checked the marriage records, and a Maxime Kérouac, widower, married Héloïse Couillard Lillois in Ste-Anne-de-la-Pocatière in 1899:



          Maxime's residence at the time of the marriage was St Patrice du Rivière-du-Loup, the place where four of Joseph and Adèle's children were baptised, as you'll see from the old thread linked to earlier.

          As Maxime was the right sort of age to be Adèle's brother or cousin, and came from the same area, I thought it was worth investigating him further.

          His first marriage was to Flore Cimon, in 1880:



          This time, his parents' names are given: François Xavier Kérouac and Emérence Boisbrillant.

          Maxime was baptised in 1849 in St-Jean-Port-Joli as Maximin Kyrouac, son of François Xavier Kyrouac dit Breton and Emérance Briand:



          While I was searching the records, I found Maxime's sister Céline, who married Auguste Gagnon in 1884.



          François-Xavier Kérouac and Emérence were married in 1843:

          and François-Xavier was buried in Cacouna in 1895:



          Present at the burial, among others (not named) were his son Maxime and his son-in-law Auguste Gagnon.

          So it should be possible to find François-Xavier in the censuses up to 1891, although I haven't found him yet.

          I've had a good look for a baptism for Adèle in Quebec around 1858, but I haven't found anything obvious yet. I've also had a quick look in the US records, but I haven't found anything obvious there either.

          Comment


          • #6
            I forgot to say that François-Xavier's parents were Hilaire Kérouac and Marie Magdeleine Bouchon or Bouché.

            He was baptised in Quebec in 1821.

            Emérance's parents were Henri Brillant (the spelling of the surname varies in the different records) and Judith Levasseur.

            When Emérance died in 1896, Maxime and Auguste Gagnon were present at the burial again, plus another son, (Joseph) Auguste Kérouac, bap. 1844.
            Last edited by Mary from Italy; 22-12-17, 00:18.

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, now I think I may be onto something, but only if we can exclude the birth in Maine that Pierrot mentioned.

              Baptised in St-Jean-Port-Joli in 1851 (same birthplace as Maxime):

              Marie-Adeline Kyrouac, daughter of François Xavier Kyrouac, blacksmith, and Marie-Emérance Briand:



              The other problem with this baptism is that the age given by Adèle in the censuses is always consistent with a year of birth in or around 1858.

              Comment


              • #8
                Info on my grand parents

                Mary this is some of the info that I found.

                Adèle Breton dit Kirouac was born on 14 july 1858 (not certain Orono,ME USA) and Died 11 feb. 1920 in Nicolet Québec

                She married Joseph Calixte Courberon dit Damour around 11 march 1876 in Old Town, ME, USA
                Joseph Calixte born 21 oct 1848 and died 21 may 1934 in Nicolet Québec.

                Info found in Franco American Burials of the Woonsocket, RI area and ascendance My grand mother gave birth to Georgianna Damour on 26 dec. 1877 in Old Town, ME My aunt died on 28 jan 1958 in Woonsocket, RI.
                Georgianna married John B. Guerin
                This might help in getting more informations.

                I had an historian from Québec do some research and he provided the info about her being born in Maine. But he did not have access to documents from USA. Maybe you can do better.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK, that's interesting, Pierrot, thanks.

                  Did you know your aunt Georgianna? If so, did she tell you herself she was born in Maine? I see that's the birthplace she gives on the censuses after her marriage. Do you have any information about any of Adèle's other children, in case it helps?

                  I think the Maine information is plausible, but Maine documents are hard to get hold of, so I haven't been able to confirm it online. It doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility that Adèle's father was François-Xavier, but I haven't found enough information to prove it.

                  I've found FXK and his children in the 1851, 1871 and 1881 Canadian censuses, but Adèle is never with them.

                  The Adèle baptised in Quebec was born in June 1851, after the census was taken. She should appear on the 1861 census, which is the one where I can't find the family, and she isn't with them in 1871 or 1881. By 1881 she would have been married to Joseph if your information is correct.

                  I've checked the US censuses, but I can't see FXK and family in 1860 or 1870, and most of the US 1880 census (where Adele may have appeared with Joseph) was destroyed.

                  There are two possibilities at this point: either the Adeline born in 1851 to FXK isn't yours, and there's another family with the same surname who had a child Adèle born in Maine (or elsewhere) or she is yours, and the Maine birth is wrong.

                  My feeling is that the Adèle born in 1858 doesn't belong to FXK, because she would have been only 13 in 1871, so you would expect her to be with her family.

                  I hesitate to say that the historian who did the research for you is wrong, without knowing his/her sources. Did they tell you the exact source of the information? They should have told you whether the information came from church records or civil registration. As they gave you an exact marriage date, you'd expect them to have found the parents' names too, and so I assume they didn't find the full marriage details.

                  There's some information here about Maine records:

                  Vital records are kept by town clerks or selectmen. Although some towns have existed since the 1650s, most vital records date from about 1700. The vital statistics are often arranged by family. Vital records prior to 1892 are (by law in effect as of September 2011) open to the public; anyone may purchase a copy. [NOTE: See the article "Accessing Vital Records in Maine" on the Maine Genealogical Society website for complete information.]


                  as you'll see, they're either difficult to find or non-existent before 1892.

                  I've tried to find the marriage, and I'm pretty sure I've found the one they're referring to on the FamilySearch site; the names are entirely wrong, but the place and date is correct, and as records from that period are often hard to read, the transcriber may have had difficulty deciphering them. Unfortunately FamilySearch doesn't have the image of the record.

                  This is what their transcription says:

                  Name Joseph Gubeson
                  Spouse's Name Adelade Butler
                  Event Date 11 Mar 1876
                  Event Place Old Town, Penobscot, Maine



                  It's quite possible that Courberon could be mistranscribed as Gubeson, and Adèle or Adeline Breton as Adelade Butler, but you'd need to see the original record to confirm it.

                  It used to be possible to order the FamilySearch microfilm to view at a centre local to you, but I believe this system is no longer operating.
                  Last edited by Mary from Italy; 22-12-17, 17:20.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    These are the censuses where I've found FXK and family:

                    1851:
                    Fr Xavier, Mérance, Auguste, Xavier, Maxime and Célina

                    Create an account for free with Findmypast to discover your family history and build a family tree. Search birth records, census data, death records and more.


                    (can't find it on Ancestry, sorry)

                    1871:
                    François, Emérance, Auguste, François, Maxime, Célina and Octave




                    1881:
                    Fr Xavier, Mérance and Célina Kyrouac



                    I made a mistake in my previous post; it's the 1890 US census that was mostly destroyed, not the 1880, but I couldn't find Adèle and Joseph in 1880 anyway.


                    Do you have a current subscription to Ancestry so you can view all the records?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I do have the St-Joseph parish Old town Document dated 1876. It could be Cuberon and Adélaide Butler, witness are Peter Beaulier or Beaulieu and Agnes Butler and indicate that they came from ORONO. I'm still looking. I've contacted the Kirouac family association to see what they have from USA. The only ancestor to the Kirouac, Keroack or Kérouac in America is Urbain-François Le Bihan, sieur de Kervoac'h. 1720 area.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Can you post a copy of the 1876 document here?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That doesn't mean every kerouac is descended from the same family. You could have other unrelated families arrive in successive centuries from anywhere in the world. France had territory in canada, louisiana, haiti and the carribbean (the family could have been an emmigrees one during the haiti revolution), mauritius, etc doesn't mean they are breton directly, even though it is a very breton name.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No, that's what I said earlier. I've had a good look at the Kéroaucs in the general area where Adèle lived, and a lot of them are certainly related, but not necessarily all of them. I also found at least 2 or 3 families in the area using the surname Kérouac dit Breton. My feeling is that they may all be descended from the same ancestor, but it needs proving.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In the meantime I've been trying to trace François Xavier's line backwards, to see where it leads.

                              I've done it fairly quickly, so it needs checking, but if I haven't made any mistakes (bearing in mind that the earlier records are very hard to read), these are his ancestors:

                              1. François Xavier Kérouac dit Breton, bap. 1821 at L'Islet-sur-Mer, parents: Hilaire Kérouac and Marie Magdelaine Bouchon or Bouché, married in 1819 at L'Islet-sur-Mer.

                              2. Hilaire Kérouac bap. 1798 at L'Islet-sur-Mer, parents: Simon Alexandre Kérouac and Marie Ursule Guimand, married in 1782 at Cap-St-Ignace.

                              3. Simon Alexandre de Kérouaq, bap. 1760 at L'Islet-sur-Mer, parents (Simon) Alexandre Kérouaq and Marie Elizabeth Chalifour (spelling? ), married in 1758 at L´Islet-sur-Mer.

                              4. (Simon) Alexandre Kérouaq, parents' names in marriage register practically illegible. Father's name could be Lebardie or something similar (it doesn't really look like LeBris or LeBihan), and mother's first name looks a bit like Louis, but could be anything. There is a baptism at Cap-St-Ignace in 1735 for Alexandre, son of Louis LeBrice de Kerouac and Louise Bernier(?), which might possibly be the same person. The baby was born the day before it was baptised.

                              5. I found a burial in 1736 for Alexandre Kérouaque (?) Breton, aged 30, who I assume is related to no. 4, possibly his father, but there's no way of being sure.

                              So this family does appear to connect back to the one you mentioned in your first post, but don't get too excited yet, because we still need proof of Adèle's birth.
                              Last edited by Mary from Italy; 23-12-17, 00:01.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I've found the birth of Simon Alexandre Bernier at Cap-St-Ignace in 1732, to "a certain Alexandre, traveller, and Louise Bernier", and the subsequent marriage the same year at Cap-St-Ignace of Maurice Louis Le Brice de Kerouach, when the priest states that the parties had a child (not named in the register) prior to the marriage, who was legitimised by the marriage. One of the witnesses who signed the register was Maurice's brother Nicolas Jean de Kerverk.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Mary from Italy View Post
                                  Can you post a copy of the 1876 document here?
                                  how can I post I only have a paper copy of it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                    That doesn't mean every kerouac is descended from the same family. You could have other unrelated families arrive in successive centuries from anywhere in the world. France had territory in canada, louisiana, haiti and the carribbean (the family could have been an emmigrees one during the haiti revolution), mauritius, etc doesn't mean they are breton directly, even though it is a very breton name.
                                    Talking with the Kirouac Kerouac family association the only ancestor coming to Nouvelle France was Urbain François Le Bihan de Kerouac born around 1702, He came to America around 1720. Once in Canada he changed is name to Alexandre and Married Louise Bernier in 1732. They had 3 sons. Simon Alexandre 1732 the main source of the Kirouac family or Kirouac Kerouac Kervoac. Second son Jacques 1733 did not leave any trace (lost in nature) Third son Louis Gabriel 1735 from what I see only had a few children.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Pierrot View Post
                                      how can I post I only have a paper copy of it.
                                      You would need to scan it, upload it to a photo-sharing site, and then post it here.

                                      The instructions are here:



                                      However, they relate to uploading to the Photobucket site, which I don't think is free any more. Alternatively you could use https://www.flickr.com or one of the sites mentioned here:

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Pierrot View Post
                                        Talking with the Kirouac Kerouac family association the only ancestor coming to Nouvelle France was Urbain François Le Bihan de Kerouac born around 1702, He came to America around 1720. Once in Canada he changed is name to Alexandre and Married Louise Bernier in 1732.
                                        It would be interesting to find out how they know that Urbain and Alexandre are the same person.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X