WW1 medal mystery

[joanne]

Hi all. I'm asking for advice, but think it could be an impossible task.

My stepdad has a box of WW1 medals which belonged to his grandad and great-uncles. One of the medals is the size of a saucer and came with details of the soldiers death.

This week, my stepdad took the medals to a local antiques fair purely to get some information about them. Most of them were, as expected, identified as being his grandads.

However, the large medal and a couple of little medals belonged to a soldier in the Canadian army! My stepdad has absolutely no idea who this is person is and how he is connected to the family.

His family came from a tiny village in mid Sussex and only relocated 5 miles away.

I've looked up the soldier and found out that his name was Thomas Smith and he came from East Hamilton, Ontario.

What we'd like to know is how his medals and associated papers have ended up here in Sussex. I've attached the limited info that we have about Thomas.
IMG_0100.jpgIMG_0109.jpgIMG_0108.jpg

[grumpy]

Joanne, I think that the saucer size medallion may be the Memorial Plaque (Medallion) which was issued to every person who was killed in the war, and persons who died post war of

war related injuries etc.

If you google WW1 memorial plaque it gives a very good explanation of what it looked like. The plaque was about 5 inches in diameter and made of bronze.

One explanation of your relatives possession of the relevant medals may be that he bought them, either privately or on-line from such places as e-bay etc. There

is a huge trade in buying and selling medals of any era.

[Sylvia C]

Joanne ............

I wonder if someone ............ possibly your stepdad's grandfather ....... did something similar to what my brother used to do in the 1960s to 1980s.

Brother was a Mason in England, and also loved rooting around on the market stalls if he happened to be in a town on Market Day. He also made regular visits to the large open-air market in our home town and to the one in the town where he lived.

On one of those visits somewhere, he saw some Mason regalia being sold ............ I know nothing about the Masons, but he told me that regalia should not be got rid of that way and was horrifed. So he bought it.

Then he made a bit of a habit about watching out for more things like that, right until the time he died. I don't whether he did find any more or not ..............

but it struck me that someone in your family could have spotted the memorial plaque or other medals in a "junk" box on a market stall and hated the thought of them possibly being thrown out or melted down, so bought them to save them?

[joanne]

Thank you Sylvia and David for the suggestions. It hadn't occurred to me that they might have been bought. We had been wondering if the soldier had lodged with the family prior to fighting in France.
My SD was given the medals in the 1950's by his uncle. They were in a box with my SD's granddad medal.
The memorial medal was with the death notice that I've attached above and an RIP letter from the king. There was also campaign medals for the Canadian soldier.
If there is no connection to our family, which seems likely, it would be nice to return them to their rightful owner. Sadly I think this could prove a massive challenge.

[Jill on the A272]

Joanne I have emailed details of your medal to someone who has Canadian military knowledge in the hope that he may have some ideas.

[joanne]

That's great. Thank you Jill.
It's a mystery how these medals ended up in a tiny farm cottage in Streat

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Have you looked to see if he is listed here?

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/search.aspx

The site is not yet complete, but is a wealth of information about the men already added. I found ALL the army papers for one of my family, including plan showing place of death and lots more. This paperwork included name and address of next of kin, in my case this was the soldier's father, in England, to where the death plaque and medals were eventually sent.
If you're lucky and find the paperwork, then nok info should be of great help in trying to work out a family relationship or to locate living relatives.

Jay

[JudithM]

Have you looked to see if he is listed here?

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/search.aspx

The site is not yet complete, but is a wealth of information about the men already added. I found ALL the army papers for one of my family, including plan showing place of death and lots more. This paperwork included name and address of next of kin, in my case this was the soldier's father, in England, to where the death plaque and medals were eventually sent.
If you're lucky and find the paperwork, then nok info should be of great help in trying to work out a family relationship or to locate living relatives.

Jay

Joanne has the next of kin and address info on the 1916 attestation paper which she attached to her opening post. It's his mother Mrs Louise Smith and an address in Canada which is what makes the appearance of his medals in mid Sussex so odd. The man must have had some link to England for them to have either been given to or perhaps bought in a local sale by Joanne's family member..

[GallowayLass]

The man must have had some link to England for them to have either been given to or perhaps bought in a local sale by Joanne's family member..

Unless he was simply some kind man who could not bear to see any items like this being sold and intended one day to find its rightful heir, he just never completed the job. Research pre computer days must have been a nightmare.

[grumpy]

Joanne has the next of kin and address info on the 1916 attestation paper which she attached to her opening post. It's his mother Mrs Louise Smith and an address in Canada which is what makes the appearance of his medals in mid Sussex so odd. The man must have had some link to England for them to have either been given to or perhaps bought in a local sale by Joanne's family member..

Not really Judith. What we don't know is when the medals were acquired, but the buying and selling of medals of all description is a world wide practice and they could have easily been bought from a dealer or on flea bay.

Personally I would rather there a connection somewhere such as a relationship that hasn't been discovered yet.

[Jill on the A272]

My contact has forwarded my email to someone he knows for his opinion/advice.

[GallowayLass]

There are two trees on ancestry that has him born 1893 in Canada to Thomas SMITH and (Mary) Louisa CARLISLE who married 1891 at Hamilton, Ontario. His father was born in London to Thomas SMITH and Louisa LEAGOE or Legoe or Leggo or Lego (have found various spellings) and emigrated into Quebec 1869 so must have been soon after birth. That 1869 birth is on GRO index for Whitechapel. Louisa Leagoe's birth is also on GRO 1841 Bethnal Green mother's m.s. Stevenson
Her parents were William Leagoe of the parish of St Matthew, Bethnal Green and Sarah STEVENSON of the parish of St Katherine Coleman who were married by licence in the the bride's parish church 11 April 1827. Possible 1801 baptism of the groom in Southwark and the bride 1806 in St George in the East, Stepney
There are more trees withe couple Thomas Smith and Louisa LEAGOE (plus variants).

[Sylvia C]

His mother might be shown as in Canada ........... but that does not say that they had not emigrated there from England. It could well be that mother or father still had siblings, possibly parents, in England.

Need to research his family history, see when the family emigrated if that is what they did.

It could be a long job!!!!



oops ........... I had not seen p 2

GL has already started following my idea

sorry!

[Jill on the A272]

My contact Jim has just sent the following from his friend Steve in Canada:

"Hi Jim,The short answer to the mystery is that he married a British girl. Check out the attached document and look in the upper right corner - you'll see Mrs. Smith and her address at the time of his death. Unfortunately, his file hasn't been digitized just yet but it will be likely available in the next couple of months or so. My recommendation at this point would be to check birth, marriage, and death records for this area - setting applicable gates. There are a myriad of reasons as to why the one family has the items - who knows. Having said that, there may be tangible linkages once the birth/death records are searched. There will be a record of marriage somewhere.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Steve"

[Jill on the A272]

Godley's Green is a little further east from Wivelsfield Green which you will know joanne so not too far from Streat.

[Jill on the A272]

In 1911 at Godleys Green Cottages there is the Agate family (youngest 4 children born at Streat) and the Lindfield family, none have a female with inital J though.

[GallowayLass]

Snap Jill.

I also cannot find a Sussex marriage 1917+/1 for a Thomas Smith marrying a woman with forename initial 'J'. It has to be between when he attested in Candad 11 May 1916 and 1 October 1918 when he died.

I also cannot find a widow J Smith in the Chailey R.D. district in 1939 apart from someone as old as his own mother. Even widening that out to Lewes, there's only 6 widow Smith and none are 'J'.

There's nothing military that's any help so far. I can only see the docs already posted.

[Jill on the A272]

I've had a look in the Sussex Express and the Mid Sussex Times on Find My Past to see if I could find anyting relevant, but nothing so far.

[JudithM]

I think the initial for the wife is T not J , as in cursive writing capital J would have a loop below the line.
Problem is that at that time women may well have been referred to by husband's initial - eg my mum, christian name Doris, was listed as Mrs P. M....... (dad's christian name being Percy) so the T could stand for Thomas rather than the wife's name.

[GallowayLass]

I see now what you mean Judith. Will go back and look for marriages.