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1911 census please

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  • 1911 census please

    i can't see this family in the 1911 census, can anyone spot them?

    gordon pembroke b.1905 camberwell, elsie broff b.1907 camberwell, and twins charles neville and kathleen hilda shaw b.1910 st giles.

    they are children of octavius pembroke shaw and katherine wilce/wild, more on them here: https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...light=octavius

    charles neville shaw d.3 sep 1910 at 28 pomeroy st, camberwell. inquest states he asphyxiated, and his father was on his way to western australia?! no idea why, mother not mentioned in the inquest, but no deaths for her between 1910-1912.
    kathleen hilda shaw d.15 aug 1911 at 28 pomeroy st, camberwell.

    so they should be there in the census, but they aren't. instead, there is a william shaw (william leonard langdon shaw; informant on kathleen's death, listed as uncle) 53, b.langdon hills, essex, brewery clerk. with his wife frances 55, and no futher details; other than they were married 7 years....william's wife was living with her kids in dublin in 1901 and 1911, so this is fishy. william dies 1926 in aston, herts.

    i have traced gordon and elsie post 1911, so don't need anything there. i have octavius' family, and he was in the merchant navy, so explains his absence. i know nothing about the children's mother, katherine, except she is supposedly b.1884 (from marriage cert).

    any help is greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    Octavius and Katherine appear on the 1912 electoral roll living in Oxford st Leederville, Perth WA. Katherine is a storekeeper and Octavius is a carter
    Last edited by Macbev; 05-09-17, 16:53.

    Beverley



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    • #3
      Looks like Octavius, Katherine, Gordon and Elsie emigrated on the 'Osterley' departing London, arr. Fremantle 6 Sep 1910. Passenger list shows
      Shaw, O.P, farmer;Shaw, K,wife; Shaw, G.P,male, child; Shaw, E.B, female, child

      Beverley



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      • #4
        ooh bev! that's amazing. but why leave the twins? and why wasn't kathleen hilda enumerated with her uncle? they weren't in western australia long. octavius is a steward aboard the "alice a. leigh" serving 1913-1915, died at sea leaving antofogasta in chile.

        Comment


        • #6
          Mr & Mrs O.P Shaw + 3 children (2 male, 1 female) left Perth for N.S.W in 1913 on the 'Dimboola'. The extra male child might be Reginald T. Shaw, b. 1912 Leederville.....does that name appear in your tree?

          Beverley



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          • #7
            Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
            ooh bev! that's amazing. but why leave the twins? and why wasn't kathleen hilda enumerated with her uncle? they weren't in western australia long. octavius is a steward aboard the "alice a. leigh" serving 1913-1915, died at sea leaving antofogasta in chile.
            Perhaps the twins were too frail for the journey....the boy died in the year of his birth (you don't mention how old he was when he died). Perhaps they were to be left with relatives and sent for when they were a bit older.

            I haven't found them in NSW so far, so don't know how long they were there

            Beverley



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            • #8
              Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
              ooh bev! that's amazing. but why leave the twins? and why wasn't kathleen hilda enumerated with her uncle? they weren't in western australia long. octavius is a steward aboard the "alice a. leigh" serving 1913-1915, died at sea leaving antofogasta in chile.
              Perhaps the twins were too frail for the journey....the boy died in the year of his birth (you don't mention how old he was when he died). Perhaps they were to be left with relatives and sent for when they were a bit older.

              I haven't found them in NSW so far, so don't know how long they were there

              Beverley



              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                but why leave the twins? and why wasn't kathleen hilda enumerated with her uncle? .
                They didn't "leave" Charles Neville, as you say he died on 3 Sep 1910 and they left on the Osterley on 6 Sep 1910. If the Kathleen I found with the household of nurses was theirs, perhaps she was too poorly to travel, or if the boy's asphyxiation was suspicious perhaps she was taken into care?
                Judith passed away in October 2018

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                  They didn't "leave" Charles Neville, as you say he died on 3 Sep 1910 and they left on the Osterley on 6 Sep 1910. If the Kathleen I found with the household of nurses was theirs, perhaps she was too poorly to travel, or if the boy's asphyxiation was suspicious perhaps she was taken into care?
                  Not quite correct...the 'Osterley' arrived on 6 Sep 1910 in Fremantle harbour. I didn't notice the date they sailed, but I think it used to take about 2 months at that time. (I'm sure someone can put me right about that.

                  Beverley



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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Macbev View Post
                    Not quite correct...the 'Osterley' arrived on 6 Sep 1910 in Fremantle harbour. I didn't notice the date they sailed, but I think it used to take about 2 months at that time. (I'm sure someone can put me right about that.
                    I'm sorry, I didn't spot the "arr" on the entry. In that case it does seem odd to emigrate without the babies but perhaps they were very sickly and it was thought best to leave them.
                    Last edited by JudithM; 05-09-17, 19:13.
                    Judith passed away in October 2018

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      From memory, when octavius died at sea, he had a london address to return to. Since gordon and elsie married and died in england, they must have returned to england by 1915. As gordon signed up in the merchant navy in 1920 and married in 1925.

                      I had no idea of that extra child! And i would think maybe the babies were ill, twins tended to be premature right? So kathleen may have been returned to william's care after the inquest ruled out an accident?

                      Still doesn't help trace the mother katherine.

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                      • #13
                        And what happened to reginald? Too many questions and not enough answers for this family....

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          There is a Reginald Trevor Shaw born 21.3.1912 in Ladyville corrected to Leederville, in the Merchant Navy. Records at National Archives, Discharge No R 58801, Card type CR1, Series BT349 1921-1941

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                          • #15
                            Ooh! Thanks for that. I thought he may have been as well, but couldn't see an entry.

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              There is a reginald trevor shaw bur.29 oct 1940 at little rivington, gloucester age 28 b.1912.

                              1939 register has a reginald t. Shaw b.21 mar 1912 living in north cotswold, gloucester with an army? Or merchant navy? Reference number for occupation. There is an anne shaw (wife?) 14 feb 1914 on unpaid domestic duties.

                              Reginald t. Shaw married anne brunnsteiner in 1939, north cotswold, gloucester.

                              Reckon he's mine?
                              Last edited by kylejustin; 06-09-17, 10:37.

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                Could always buy his birth cert from the Department of Justice, WA, BDMs.....but it is not available as an online option. You would have to download the form and post it.

                                Shaw Reginald T Male Leederville 59 1912 order

                                Beverley



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                                • #18
                                  I've had a trawl through Trove to see if the birth announcement was there -no luck :(

                                  Beverley



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                                  • #19
                                    Saw the 1939 entry but was undecided as he is a sergeant pilot in the RAF. He could have changed from Merchant Navy to RAF, guess it may be an idea to check his discharge papers from the M Navy to see dates etc.

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                                    • #20
                                      Thank you for that frazzled. I couldn't decipher it. I might send for the marriage to confirm father. Then grab the other records if it's correct.

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