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Help with James Patrick Hogan (Carey??) - did he go to the USA?

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  • Help with James Patrick Hogan (Carey??) - did he go to the USA?

    I'm sorry, the background to this is a bit long.

    Found yesterday in a Northumberland RC baptism register - born 1 Oct 1882, bp 3 Dec Jacobus Patrituis Hogan, son of Roberti & Isabellae Hogan, formerly Carey.
    I haven't found the corresponding GRO birth reg nor a civil marriage for the parents.

    I already have Robert Hogan and (Susan) Isabella Carey on my tree. In 1881 Robert was at the home of an elder married sister & family


    In 1881 Isabella was in Gateshead at the home of her married sister Elizabeth Carroll (nee Carey.)

    I had got no further than 1881 with Isabella, and thought perhaps she had married, or gone to the USA with her relatives.

    I can find nothing further for Isabella Carey Hogan or the baby in English records.

    Another of the Carey girls had married William Hogan, brother of Robert, in 1879. At some time in the 1880's, William Hogan & family, Robert Hogan, & the Carrolls all emigrated to the USA. The William Hogans went to Cleveland Ohio, where Wm worked in the shipyards, whilst Robert went to Pennsylvania and worked as a miner. (I have a lot of info on these people, so please don't waste any time researching them as individuals.) On Ancestry trees it is alleged that Robert Hogan married twice 1) to a Sarah Hall with whom he had children in Pennsylvania 1885 -1893 and 2) to an Elizabeth Law, who already had children. The second marriage was dysfunctional and the couple parted company.

    In the light of the baptism, did Isabella and the baby go to the USA with Robert and did she die there? Or, was there no civil marriage and she died in England as Isabella Carey, but with age slightly out at registration?

    In 1900 the William Hogans were in Ward 29, Cleveland Ohio, with eight of their children, and a 17 yr old nephew, James Carey. (Sorry, I don't have worldwide Ancestry so can't post the link.) Is this Jacobus Patritius Hogan????

    Would be grateful for any theories or any additional references anyone wants to throw into the pot.

    Thanks for reading.

    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 13-06-17, 19:14.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  • #2
    1900 Federal USA Census

    William Hogan 43
    Mary Hogan 49 M 21 11/8
    +8 children
    Carey, James, Nephew aged 17, b Oct 1882 England,
    Emigrated 1883 Shipbuilder/Heater
    Living Vermont Street, Cleveland, Ohio

    James Carey not with William and Mary in 1910

    Vera

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    • #3
      Just noticed POB of father of James Carey b 1882 recorded as Ohio??

      Vera

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      • #4
        Here's the 1900 census/William Hogan on FS:


        Do you have a YOB for Isabelle?

        But I did a quick search on FS and on Ancestry for any Hogan whose parents were Robert or Isabelle, or for Jacob - no joy
        Last edited by PhotoFamily; 14-06-17, 04:53.

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        • #5
          Thanks for looking PhotoFamily. Isabella was bp Susan Isabella Carey on 12 Apr 1863 at Newcastle upon Tyne. Unfortunately the 1900 image you put up the link for is not for the right William Hogan family. It is this one -
          https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/...=10&cc=1325221.
          (Until you posted, I'd forgotten 1900 was available on FS)

          Vera, thank you for that transcription - October 1882 fits with the baptism entry. I don't know WHY it would record Ohio as birth place of James's father, other than it being a mistake. Carey often morphs into Cary, Curry, Currie, Curie, Corry etc.

          With the surname Carey, James had to have been the child of one of Mrs Hogan (nee Carey)'s siblings - they were Rosanna (Mrs Carlyle by 1872 and in Pennsylvania before 1880) Elizabeth (Mrs Carroll by 1877 and emigrated in the 1880's) John born 1853 and not found after 1861 census (in the family home in Billy Row County Durham) Andrew(married in 1881 to Isabella Dodds, with whom he had children in Northumberland 1881 - c1890, before disappearing off the face of the Earth) and Susan/Isabella.
          I do wonder if Isabella had died before William and Robert emigrated and so the baby went off to America with them all and was brought up by William and Mary Jane?? If ONLY 1890 census had survived

          Are Pennsylvania vital records online at all? It would be good to check for a possible death of Isabella and also the alleged marriages of Robert Hogan, which are perfectly feasible, but for which I do not have documented dates.

          I keep thinking I have finally tied up most of the lose ends of my Irish lot, then another one appears.

          Jay
          Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 14-06-17, 09:45.
          Janet in Yorkshire



          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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          • #6
            Can't see any Penn m for Robert Hogan to Sarah Hall or Elizabeth Law. No death for Isabelle either.

            Was Robert Hogan's f a James as in the bap record? I was wondering if Isabelle registered James Patrick as Robert as in the GRO index for Dec 1882 Tynemouth mmn Carey.

            Vera

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            • #7
              Can't really play at the moment, but I would note the progression of places that William's children are born - especially the last one - the mom went to Pennsylvania from Ohio to give birth, then moved back to OH?

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              • #8
                Vera, thanks for posting that you've saved my sanity. I had seen that GRO birth reg and wondered if Isabella had misunderstood the registrar's question and gave the name of the child's father, rather than that of the child. Tynemouth would have been the appropriate registration district for the birth, as the priest noted the residence as Cambois. However, as I knew I'd seen that entry, whenever I went back to the GRO site I kept on putting in "James" and got no hits. (I then got myself in such a tizzy that I really thought I must have imagined seeing the reference.)
                I suppose another scenario is that the child was registered with one name and baptised with another (I've never heard of a Saint Robert, whilst there were several saints named James.) Patrick was the name of the godfather - and also of Robert's deceased father. Isabella's deceased father was Daniel. You will see that there was a birth for a Daniel Hogan earlier in the year - I think that was the child of William & Mary Jane Hogan - Robert's brother and Isabella's sister. However, the registration district for that event was Morpeth, although Daniel was baptised at Blyth, which was in the Tynemouth reg dist.
                Thank you too for looking for the Penn details. I'm beginning to think the family weren't too bothered about marriages.

                Jay
                Janet in Yorkshire



                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                Comment


                • #9
                  PhotoFamily, the 1900 census return also gives West Virginia as the birthplace of son Robert, whilst I have another reference to him having been born in Belmont Ohio! Not sure where I got the additional info from - could have been death documentation.
                  With regards to Grace, Pennsylvania is given as pob in 1920 census return too and also on her death cert - born 2 Sep 1899 at Ehrenfeld, Pa. I wondered if they'd been visiting family in Penn and it was a premature birth?? William had a brother Robert in Pennsylvania and also two married sister-in-laws, both married to coal miners.

                  I don't think any of them had real mastery of reading, writing or calculating and have found that census returns are not always accurate for this family

                  Jay
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                    PhotoFamily, the 1900 census return also gives West Virginia as the birthplace of son Robert, whilst I have another reference to him having been born in Belmont Ohio! Not sure where I got the additional info from - could have been death documentation.
                    With regards to Grace, Pennsylvania is given as pob in 1920 census return too and also on her death cert - born 2 Sep 1899 at Ehrenfeld, Pa. I wondered if they'd been visiting family in Penn and it was a premature birth?? William had a brother Robert in Pennsylvania and also two married sister-in-laws, both married to coal miners.
                    Right, that's what I was wondering. It could have been the case for any number of reasons - perhaps she was assisting someone with their own pregnancy; maybe Mary had been unwell during the pregnancy, and went to family to be taken care of during the pregnancy - could it have been Isabelle that she went to?

                    Did you notice that Mary was mother of 11, 8 living?

                    Miners makes sense. Lot of coal mining in WV. WV BMD is online & free with images. Of course, they had to register...

                    The Hogans seem to be living with the Dugans (I think "R1" instead of a house number indicates another family at the same house). It may simply be a sharing arrangement, but do you know if they were related?

                    I'd also mention that US censuses were written by an enumerator, who was not required to ask for spellings of names.

                    Ehrenfeld is in Cambria County, PA. Have you found the county histories? Here's one


                    And another
                    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                    There's a third in FS catalog, but they don't have a link to the online version.

                    The county histories could be little genealogical gems. They were money makers for the publishers. They'd have boiler-plate local history, then write up a bio of a lot of the bigger names in the county. Those people in turn would buy the books. The information was not always accurate, but if your ancestor is in it, it can be a treasure trove! Check the publication dates - your peeps may have arrived around or after publication date.

                    Have you found the obit for Mary Hogan?

                    Who were Isabelle's parents?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK, I looked at the linked books, didn't see any thing there.
                      You probably found Mary's memorial page on FindAGrave - a short obit on it. I didn't find Isabel in that cemetery, but it wasn't a thorough search.

                      One of Mary's and William's daughter's marriage licenses is on Ancestry.
                      Last edited by PhotoFamily; 15-06-17, 05:59.

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                      • #12
                        Thanks PhotoFamily. Over the years I have collected quite a bit of info on the children of William & Mary, but nothing further on nephew James.

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment

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