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Looking for a Marriage, - help please!

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  • Looking for a Marriage, - help please!

    Despite searching for a Birth or Baptism for my late Grandfather for the last 30+ years... I am no further towards finding him.

    All of the obvious avenues have been explored, - (with much help from on here).

    He was William James Wilson, and on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Swansea, he says he was Born in 'Manchester, Lancs.' Circa 1860/1861.

    However, he is not to be found there...

    I am now wondering if he was illegitimate/Registered under another Surname/Assumed a Step Father's name on his Mother's Marriage?

    WmJamesWilsonMarrCert1893.jpg

    His Marriage Certificate, (In Swansea in June 1893) gives his Father as 'William Wilson (Deceased) Occupation: Mason.

    I've tried searching for a William Wilson, Occupation: Mason, Marriage between 1865 - 1885 in Manchester, and Lancs more generally. I've also tried searching Probate Entries for Deaths for William Wilsons between 1880 - 1893.

    It is of course quite possible that the name on the Marriage Certificate was invented by my Grandfather...

    The problem is that I have no way of knowing, - and I could of course merely be chasing the proverbial 'needle in a haystack':-(

    Looking for William Wilson's (Senior) Marriage seems the best place to concentrate as a starting point.

    Any thoughts on this would be welcome, - and as I am trying to look in a different direction, - I haven't drawn together previous threads. (But will attempt to do so if required).

    Holly.
    Last edited by Holly; 16-03-17, 09:45.

  • #4
    Thanks so much for looking Janet. I agree that that family looks a good match, - and until the 1911 Census became available, - I thought I had found the right William James Wilson. (I ordered lots of Certs, and followed the family further back, until I realised my mistake).

    However, - on the 1911 Census, the William James Wilson, Born 1860 in Kirkby Ireleth, Lancs, - is still single and still living at home. I've followed him, and he Dies, (still single) in Ulverston.

    On the 1911 my Grandfather William James Wilson (1860 - 1937) is Married, living in Swansea with my Grandmother, and has 6 sons.

    The reason that I'm trying to look for William James Wilson's Father, - is that I've exhausted most of the usual methods for finding someone based on the info they've given on Censuses, Marriage Certs etc...

    I'm going round in circles with this one:-(

    Holly.

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    • #5
      I started looking for him today, and I had all the past records for him I had looked at on FMP ticked, remember now I looked before, still not sure what one is him.

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      • #6
        Thanks for looking Val.

        The only records that I know are definately him are his Marriage Cert, and the entries on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Swansea, when he's in St Helens Road.

        I suspect a possible name change?
        Holly.

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        • #7
          I was looking for a William Wilson a Mason in earlier census records there are a few.

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          • #8
            had a real good look again but nothing concrete, sorry

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            • #9
              Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
              had a real good look again but nothing concrete, sorry
              I'm glad it's not just me! I've been trawling through Census and Marriage Records, but haven't found any definate matches either:-(

              I suppose it's possible that he just invented a Father for his Marriage Cert?

              Holly.

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              • #10
                Holly

                It could even be probable!!

                it's amazing how many "deceased" non-existent fathers I've found on marriage records from all over the country, and for all kinds of people!

                It looked better for the in-laws.

                It could also be that he had been led to believe that his father was dead by his mother and relatives ............ maybe the mother pretended to be a widow.
                My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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                • #11
                  Good point Sylvia he may have already been married, and just because it says dead on William Juniors marriage does not mean its true.
                  Last edited by Guest; 16-03-17, 21:31.

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                  • #12
                    Thanks Sylvia and Val. Having spent years, (off and on:-) trying to find either son or father, - there is obviously something not right with the info on the Marriage Cert.

                    It's just curious, because the rest of his life, (after he Married my Grandmother) seems very settled. (Apart from the upheaval from Swansea to Wembley in the early 1930's).

                    We all know that in Victorian times, it was relatively easy to change your name, - and to reinvent yourself by moving from one part of the country to another. I have puzzled as to why William James Wilson would relocate from Manchester to Swansea, - there must have been opportunities for House Painters in both Cities? And his wife's family were long established in Swansea. Perhaps, faced with his Father and sister in law as Witnesses to the Wedding, - he came up with 'William Wilson, (Deceased) Occupation: Mason', - to save face with them? I'll probably never know...

                    But it is very frustrating:-(

                    Holly.

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                    • #13
                      might be worth looking for a William Wilson a Mason after the marriage, he may have still been alive? I had a quick look yesterday, will have another later, but of course he may be transcribed as a Stone Mason or as Janet found a Slate Quarrier.
                      Last edited by Guest; 17-03-17, 11:50.

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                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                        might be worth looking for a William Wilson a Mason after the marriage, he may have still been alive? I had a quick look yesterday, will have another later, but of course he may be transcribed as a Stone Mason or as Janet found a Slate Quarrier.
                        Thanks Val.

                        I know definately that the William Wilson Slate Quarrier in Kirkby Ireleth, is not the right Father, as that William James Wilson is still at home on the 1911.

                        I'm guessing that a 'Mason' might variously be transcribed as a 'Labourer/Builder/Stone Worker/Bricklayer'?

                        I've also tried searching for just 'William James' on the 1881, - without a Surname, but Born 1860 Manchester, - but too many possibles:-( (However, checking them against the 1911 helps to eliminate some).

                        At least I've tried to find him!

                        Holly.

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                        • #15
                          I tried all that ,I also tried just using the name William or James not both, will have another go later am about to do my favourite job Ironing

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                          • #16
                            I have the same sort of problem for someone in my step daughter's tree who gives her maiden name on a birth cert and does not appear to exist before she is seen in the 1911 census!!

                            What I did was identify all the people with the same name born in the same year and district and printed that out. I then systematically searched for the names in the census, deaths or marriages to eliminate them. I also took the list of names from ancestry, FMP and freeBMD to ensure none were missed.

                            The birth place Manchester covers a range of districts so it is slightly more complicated for you in that regard. Also you might need to look at all those who do not have the middle name of James as well.

                            Using the GRO index I would start with all those who don't have a mother's maiden name showing as that would cover all illegitimate births. I would then check all the W J Wilson names and finally all the William only names.

                            Using the mother's maiden name you could also check for marriages to William Wilson to see if that gave anything.

                            Good luck.

                            Margaret

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                            • #17
                              have you tried looking to see if there are any could be siblings ? like any Wilsons about 1861-1871 with a Mason Father.

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                              • #18
                                It doesn't help I know, but my 2x ggf was illegitimate and married twice. At the first marriage he gives his birth father's first name, coupled with his own surname which is of course his mother's maiden name. He gives his birth father's occupation. At the second marriage he gives his grandfather's name as his father ( grandfather brought him up) but his birth father's rather specific occupation. I can only assume that all this confusion was to cover the fact that he was illegitimate.

                                I knew the identity of his birth father from bastardy records otherwise I could never have sorted this out.

                                OC

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                                • #19
                                  OC where did you get the bastardy records from?

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                                  • #20
                                    All very good ideas, - and I have tried many of them over the years...

                                    We are away next week, - but when I get back, I'm going to sort through everything that I have on William James Wilson (1860 - 1937) and try and make some sort of informational time line.

                                    A few years back, I thought I had made a breakthrough when I discovered London Burial Records for Margaret Wilson (1866 - 1934) and William James Wilson. It said that they were Buried at St Andrews, Kingsbury, (Near Wembley). I was hoping for Headstones! (Ideally giving a Birthplace for WJ Wilson:-) I phoned and then wrote to the Church/emailed a Church Warden, - but they had no record of these Burials:-( So is Ancestry wrong? I don't know...

                                    Holly:-(

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