unable to pull up "Police Constables/Police Station" on 1891 Census - Barking, Essex

[Therese Touchard]

I am searching for my grandfather's sister - Elizabeth Marshall. The only digital record of her is on the 1881 Barking Census where she is with her widowed mother (recorded as Jane Marshal) and my grandfather (her brother) William Marshal. They are described as Jute Workers and lodging with the Taylors. It says Elizabeth is 11 and was born in Buckingham, Buckinghamshire. Other than William's birth certificate - born Barking Dec 1880 in Morgan's Building to George Marshall (stonemason) and Elizabeth Stevens, I have been unable to find any earlier information on any of my Marshall/Stevens ancestors. My grandfather said that his sister Elizabeth married a Police Constable in Barking, had a large family and went to Scotland when her spouse transferred. Said to be the Glasgow area. Do not know when they left for Scotland but in 1894 William left his mother in the Romford Union Workhouse and ran away to sea. I found his mother on the 1891 Barking Census under the name Elizabeth Grey, widowed. Actually she remarried to George Henry Parker in 1884 and in 1891 was living next door to George's eldest son Henry Parker. George Parker's youngest 2 sons are with her but not William. Looked at adjacent pages to see if daughter Elizabeth was living nearby. Tried everything to find Elizabeth - hundreds of records - all Elizabeth's in Barking born around 1870. Able to get list of constables in Barking for 1881 but not 1891. Can anyone assist with any of my 3 missing relatives?

[Caroline]

I shall move this to the Famiiy History Research board, where it will be seen by more people (and hopefully give more success).

Record requests is intended more for specific lookups in specific Archives/Locations.

[JudithM]

If you have access to Find My Past the census on there can be searched for police occupations by entering Police in the optional keywords field. A difficult task though as you don't know where they were living in 1891 or the husband's name. You could try with no name entered, but Barking in the place field and Elizabeth in the Other Household Members field

[margaretmarch]

I am searching for my grandfather's sister - Elizabeth Marshall. The only digital record of her is on the 1881 Barking Census where she is with her widowed mother (recorded as Jane Marshal) and my grandfather (her brother) William Marshal. They are described as Jute Workers and lodging with the Taylors. It says Elizabeth is 11 and was born in Buckingham, Buckinghamshire. Other than William's birth certificate - born Barking Dec 1880 in Morgan's Building to George Marshall (stonemason) and Elizabeth Stevens, I have been unable to find any earlier information on any of my Marshall/Stevens ancestors. My grandfather said that his sister Elizabeth married a Police Constable in Barking, had a large family and went to Scotland when her spouse transferred. Said to be the Glasgow area. Do not know when they left for Scotland but in 1894 William left his mother in the Romford Union Workhouse and ran away to sea. I found his mother on the 1891 Barking Census under the name Elizabeth Grey, widowed. Actually she remarried to George Henry Parker in 1884 and in 1891 was living next door to George's eldest son Henry Parker. George Parker's youngest 2 sons are with her but not William. Looked at adjacent pages to see if daughter Elizabeth was living nearby. Tried everything to find Elizabeth - hundreds of records - all Elizabeth's in Barking born around 1870. Able to get list of constables in Barking for 1881 but not 1891. Can anyone assist with any of my 3 missing relatives?

Can you give the link or reference for the 1881 census that you found only I can't pin it down.

Margaret

[Katarzyna]

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Fisher Street, Barking, Romford, Essex, England
Elizabeth Parker Wife Married Female 58 1833 Jute Worker Claydon, Buckinghamshire, England
William Marshal Son - Male 11 1880 Scholar Barking, Essex, England
RG12
Piece number 1371
Folio 79
Page 32


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wellington Buildings, Barking, Romford, Essex, England

James Taylor Head Married Male 69 1812 Turner (Eng X/1) Wotton, Bedfordshire, England
Charlotte Taylor Wife Married Female 60 1821 Sack Worker Wotton, Bedfordshire, England
Ann Webb Lodger Widow Female 57 1824 Sack Worker Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Jane Marshal Lodger Widow Female 47 1834 Sack Worker Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Elizabeth Marshal Lodger Single Female 11 1870 Sack Worker Buckingham, Buckinghamshire, England
William Marshal Son Single Male 2 1879 - Barking, Essex, England

RG11
Piece number 1749
Folio 9
Page 11

MARSHALL, WILLIAM STEVENS
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in ROMFORD UNION Volume 04A Page 246

Cannot see Elizabeth with Stevens as MMN in Buckinghamshire but there is this:

MARSHALL, ELIZABETH MARY ANN STEVENS
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 13

Cannot find Jane remarried either to George Parker

Jane ?Elizabeth?????

Out now . Leave you to sort this Margaret!!!

[Katarzyna]

I found this for 1871 but not sure . I cannot find a birth for this James or a marriage for Joseph at the moment.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
West Street, West Ham, Essex, England

Joseph Marshall Head - Male 42 1829 - Bedfordshire, England Transcription

Elizabeth Marshall Wife - Female 36 1835 - Buckinghamshire, England Transcription

James Marshall Son - Male 7 1864 - Essex, England Transcription

Elizabeth Marshall Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Essex, England Transcription

Richard Brown Lodger - Male 50 1821 - Essex, England Transcription

Catherine Mary Brown Wife - Female 39 1832 - Huntingdonshire, Englan

[Katarzyna]

I found a birth for James Marshall, West Ham, Mar 1864, Volume: 4a Page: 14 . Cannot find him on GRO to find his MMN :(


Therese

I cannot make out this from your post " I found his mother on the 1891 Barking Census under the name Elizabeth Grey, widowed. Actually she remarried to George Henry Parker in 1884 and in 1891 was living next door to George's eldest son Henry Parker. "

Why would she be named Grey? Edit AHHH! Have just found the 1891 census you mean
This is the only marriage I can find for George Henry Parker and Elizabeth Marshall
Sept 1884 Bethnal Green 1c 383

[Katarzyna]

These are the two Censuses
1)
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4 Howards Road, Barking, Romford, Essex, England

Henry Parker Head Married Male 40 1851 Labourer Barking, Essex, England Transcription
Francis Parker Wife Married Female 38 1853 - Ireland Transcription
Geoge H Parker Son Single Male 22 1869 Labourer Barking, Essex, England Transcription
Eliza Parker Daughter Single Female 21 1870 - Barking, Essex, England Transcription
John Parker Son - Male 18 1873 - Barking, Essex, England Transcription
Emma Parker Daughter - Female 14 1877 - Barking, Essex, England Transcription
William Parker Son - Male 10 1881 - Barking, Essex, England

and next door:

2
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3 Howards Road, Barking, Romford, Essex, England

Jane Grasy Wife Widow Female 54 1837 - Clapton, Middlesex, England Transcription
James Grasy Son - Male 16 1875 Labourer Mitcham, Surrey, England Transcription
Charles Grasy Son - Male 14 1877 Labourer Ash, Surrey, England Transcription
Eliza Walker Lodger - Female 8 1883 - Ilford, Essex, England

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1891%2f1371%2f0147&parentid=gbc%2f1891%2f0010172346

I don't understand why you think this is the correct census for Jane/ Elizabeth Stevens/Marshall

Why would George and Elizabeth marry in Bethnal Green?

I posted an alternative one in Post #5 which maybe worth considering.

[margaretmarch]

Here's a birth for a John Marshall

MARSHALL, JOHN STEVENS Order
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in WEST HAM UNION Volume 04A Page 4

I have reported to GRO the missing entry for James Marshall 1864.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

These are the two Censuses
1)
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4 Howards Road, Barking, Romford, Essex, England

Henry Parker Head Married Male 40 1851 Labourer Barking, Essex, England Transcription
Francis Parker Wife Married Female 38 1853 - Ireland Transcription
Geoge H Parker Son Single Male 22 1869 Labourer Barking, Essex, England Transcription
Eliza Parker Daughter Single Female 21 1870 - Barking, Essex, England Transcription
John Parker Son - Male 18 1873 - Barking, Essex, England Transcription
Emma Parker Daughter - Female 14 1877 - Barking, Essex, England Transcription
William Parker Son - Male 10 1881 - Barking, Essex, England

and next door:

2
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3 Howards Road, Barking, Romford, Essex, England

Jane Grasy Wife Widow Female 54 1837 - Clapton, Middlesex, England Transcription
James Grasy Son - Male 16 1875 Labourer Mitcham, Surrey, England Transcription
Charles Grasy Son - Male 14 1877 Labourer Ash, Surrey, England Transcription
Eliza Walker Lodger - Female 8 1883 - Ilford, Essex, England

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1891%2f1371%2f0147&parentid=gbc%2f1891%2f0010172346

I don't understand why you think this is the correct census for Jane/ Elizabeth Stevens/Marshall

Why would George and Elizabeth marry in Bethnal Green?

I posted an alternative one in Post #5 which maybe worth considering.

Bethnal Green is quite close to West Ham and so a marriage there would not be unusual.

Margaret

[Therese Touchard]

The details of the 1881 Census for "Jane" Marshal are on the post from Katarzyna - today 04.57. I now have some great information to research. I do hope this is my breakthrough.

[Therese Touchard]

thank you so much - the Elizabeth Grey that I thought was my Elizabeth Stevens-Marshall is not correct. I looked at the information you provided for Fisher Street and I believe that is my Elizabeth. The index uses the name "Ceres" which is why I never found her..... There are so many Parkers in Barking it is hard to figure out who is who. I know for sure that when Grandfather William signed up for the King's Own Rifles in 1905 that he used his step-brothers name - William, James, Victor Parker. James Henry and Charles William Parker show up on William's paperwork. In the 1891 census for Howard Road it show Elizabeth Grey with James and Charles and I figured the emunerater got the last name wrong and there was no follow up info on the Greys which you have now corrected to Grasy. The Buckingham birth place for Elizabeth makes sense as in 1881 her daughter is recorded at being born there. thank you for your help.

[Therese Touchard]

thanks. I am new to this - but learning such a great deal as I go along.

[Katarzyna]

I think this is Elizabeth Parker on 1911 So still no daughter Elizabeth around.

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
60 Hart St Barking, Barking, Essex, England

Elizabeth Parker Head Widow Female Old Age Pensioner 76 1835 Buckingham Steeple Claydon
Census details
First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Parker
Relationship Head
Marital status Widow
Sex Female
Occupation Old Age Pensioner
Age 76
Birth year 1835
Birth place Buckingham Steeple Claydon
Address 60 Hart St Barking
Parish Barking
County Essex
Country England
Archive reference RG14
Registration district Romford
Registration district number 191
Enumeration district 21
District number -
Sub district Barking Town
Sub district number 3
Census reference RG14PN9931 RG78PN522 RD191 SD3 ED21 SN84
Piece number 9931

[Therese Touchard]

I too have that 1911 information. There are several Elizabeth Parkers, oddly enough I believe Henry Parker's 1st wife was also Elizabeth. I have subscribed to FamilySearch and obtained a list of police officers on the 1891 census. So far none have turned up my Elizabeth who went to Scotland. It must have been around 1894 because that was when William and his mother were in the Workhouse - he gives that information on his fishing apprenticeship papers when he signs up in Grimsby. He never mentioned his sister except to say she placed him in an institution when he had to live with her and he never forgave her. My grandfather's nickname was "terror marshall" and I guess growing up without a father lead to him being a wild child.

[Katarzyna]

Do you have Elizabeth Marshall [b1870] birth cert?
1881 b Buckingham, Buckinghamshire
1871 b Essex

I think the West Ham birth is the more likely one not Bucks as they were living in West Ham at the time.
Elizabeth Mary Ann Marshall MMN Stevens 1870 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 13

[Therese Touchard]

I have researched Elizabeth and Joseph Marshall. I have birth cert for Elizabeth 1870 and I believe its my gr.father's sister. Only her father is Joseph on the census in West Ham with Elizabeth and I have just received his death certificate which says he died from phlpisis (consumption/TB) on 11 Oct, 1872. So we are back to the start - no clue for George Marshall/stonemason who she said died in a rail accident..... Unable to find any marriage info for mother Elizabeth Stevens other than the one you helped with on Henry Parker. Unable to find any marriage for Elizabeth the daughter. Oh well. It was an interesting discovery but not the results I hoped for.

[Therese Touchard]

Thanks to your help I found the marriage of Elizabeth Marshall (born West Ham 1870) I have been in contact with one of her granddaughters who is going to ask her sisters if they have any remembrances. I was able to fulfill a promise I made my mother that we would find her elusive aunt and her family.... I am hoping for a photo of Elizabeth from my cousin. Hope I will find William's father (George Marshall) and my other problem link - maternal grandfather James Stephen Holloway who is only documented from 1873 onwards when he married Amelia Stolworthy in Yarmouth. Cannot find anything about him from earlier years.

[Chrissie Smiff]

and my other problem link - maternal grandfather James Stephen Holloway who is only documented from 1873 onwards when he married Amelia Stolworthy in Yarmouth. Cannot find anything about him from earlier years.

I am a bit confused by this Therese - The only marriage I can see in 1873 Yarmouth is for a James Holloway (no middle S) to either Sarah Ann Stolworthy or Caroline Amelia Smith. Have you got a marriage cert and a link for them in 1881 census please? Also, when was James born please?

[Katarzyna]

I was confused too Chrissie. I had a look last night
As you, the only marriage found was to Sarah Ann Elizabeth Stolworthy, 29 Oct 1873,
St. Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England.

1881, Sarah and her two children + mother and sister
Sarah A. Hollaway
Age 26
Estimated Birth Year abt 1855
Relationship to Head Head
Mother Sarah A. Bowles
Where born Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Street Address Row 51 No 11
Marital Status Married
Occupation Smacksmans Wife
Registration district Yarmouth
Piece 1914 Folio 94 p 20
Sarah A. Hollaway 26
Sarah A. Bowles 49 mother had remarried to John Bowles
James S. Hollaway 5
Sarah A. Hollaway 3
William Hollaway
Hannah M. Bowles 10 sister

This maybe James on 1881 census on a smack out of Yarmouth. He was born Birmingham 1858 and married.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/NFKRG11_1913_1916-0741?pid=16324982&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1881%26h%3D16324982%26tid%3D113991017%26pid%3D430123239676%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DjMJ1274%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26rhSource%3D2352&treeid=113991017&personid=430123239676&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=jMJ1274&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

I think this is probably the right family as they moved to Barking where the Marshalls and Parkers were.
James Holloway
Age 46
Estimated Birth Year abt 1855
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Spouse Sarah Holloway
Birth Place Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish Barking
Registration district Romford
Piece 1655 Folio 66 p 7
James Holloway 46
Sarah Holloway 47 b Yarmouth
Thomas Holloway 19
Frederick Holloway 15
Amelia Holloway 7

Have to wait and see what Therese says. There are many James Holloways.