Searching for Mitchell Eccles

[andrew193]

Looking for Mitchell Eccles with wife Mary (nee Leigh) on Scottish census for 1901 & 1911. On a marriage cert for 1920 he's listed as a farmer (retired) but others seem to think that he doesn't actually exist.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Hi Andrew and welcome to FTF

What age does he give on the marriage cert in 1920 please?

[JudithM]

I'm guessing that as some people don't believe he existed the 1920 marriage wasn't his but he was named as father? If so farmer might be an exaggeration for occupation - I've known many a farm labourer "promoted" to farmer to impress the new in laws!
Do you have name and age of the daughter or son who was marrying as this could help in the census search.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Ahhh thanks Judith I had missed the point and assumed that he was getting married again after Mary (nee Leigh) died.

[andrew193]

On the register "Mitchell" Eccles Aged about 26 (not his correct name) married Emily Excell and gave his fathers name also as Mitchell which is the one im trying to trace. it is thought that the father is "made up" one and i'm trying to confirm this.

Andrew

[Janet in Yorkshire]

If you think the father on the marriage cert might be an invention to cover up illegitimacy, then I would try to find a baptism entry to see what parentage was recorded. Perhaps the birth father was a Mr Mitchell??

Jay

[andrew193]

If you think the father on the marriage cert might be an invention to cover up illegitimacy, then I would try to find a baptism entry to see what parentage was recorded. Perhaps the birth father was a Mr Mitchell??

Jay

Where do i start?
"Mitchell" (the groom) real name is John William Eccles and i know a great deal about him except his parents. He is thought to be the illegitimate child of a relationship between my g/grandfather Raymond Furniss and (possibly) a Mary Jane Eccles (born in Preston) and again i know a great deal about her and her family. For some reason he's lied about virtually everything to do with him. As i said at the start i'm almost certain the Mitchell (the Father) is made up.

Andrew

[Olde Crone Holden]

Believe it or not, there are two John William Eccles, both with a single mother called Mary Eccles, baptised in 1894 on different dates, one born Preston, the other born Fulwood workhouse. Fathers not named.

I would guess he has made up the name of his father who was possibly called Mitchell.

OC

[Karamazov]

Believe it or not, there are two John William Eccles, both with a single mother called Mary Eccles, baptised in 1894 on different dates, one born Preston, the other born Fulwood workhouse. Fathers not named.

I would guess he has made up the name of his father who was possibly called Mitchell.

OC

Where did you find the baptism info, OC?
I only found one birth on Lancashire BMD. Not sure but I think St Peter's is city centre. Fulwood is about 2 miles north of the centre.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1894
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
ECCLES John William ECCLES St Peters Preston ST.P/48/5

Just curious as I am helping someone with their family tree, mostly based in Preston. Mainly RC but some C of E...
Any pointers?
Thanks,
Christine

[Olde Crone Holden]

Christine

I found both baptisms on LAN-OPC, a site which has been invaluable for my Lancashire research.

For your general research there is a search form but I always browse the records as well and have found marvellous stuff which hasn't always been transcribed.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

I suppose that both baptisms could be for the same child on reflection.

OC

[Karamazov]

Christine

I found both baptisms on LAN-OPC, a site which has been invaluable for my Lancashire research.

For your general research there is a search form but I always browse the records as well and have found marvellous stuff which hasn't always been transcribed.

OC

DOH! Of course - total brain freeze! I've used it quite often myself but not for a while. Have got some good stuff for C of E, but come up short for RC in the Preston area.
Christine

[Janet in Yorkshire]

"I would guess he has made up the name of his father who was possibly called Mitchell.

OC"

That was my feeling OC, although I didn't have time to do any looking up. I think my next move would be to try and obtain the relevant birth cert matching the baptismal entry and to then bring forward mother and child to ascertain whether or not that JWE was likely to have been the groom, or whether there are other candidates. Look for other documentation for that name - newspapers, school admissions etc - to see if you can find any other clues.

Jay

[andrew193]

You will find 2 "John William Eccles" for Preston one being in 1891 who died in infancy and the other for 1894 which is the one i'm researching both are from the same family.

[Olde Crone Holden]

So it is this one then, if you are positive it is the Preston one and not the one born in Fulwood Workhouse the same year?

John William Eccles, bp 16 Feb 1894, mother Mary Eccles of Back Leeming Street. Preston.

There is not one mention of a Mitchell Eccles anywhere on Freebmd. In fact the only mention I found is this and I have no idea if it is relevant

Thomas Mitchell Eccles, son of Thomas Eccles and Jane, born 13 Aug 1835 bap 28 Sep 1835, at Chapel Street Independent Blackburn. Abode not given.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Thomas Mitchell Eccles m Elizabeth Ann Ashton in 1865, Blackburn.

Thomas Mitchell Eccles d 1919 Blackburn aged 83.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Curious. I am only finding one birth registration for John William Eccles 1893 - 1895 but there are TWO baptisms. Same child, or two different children?

Andrew, do you have JWE birth certificate and if so, what is his dob please.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Nor am I seeing a John William Eccles born in 1891? There is one but both his parents are given, so he was not Mary,s son. Not important because you say he died, but it does mean I am questioning your research. Can you say what hard facts you have discovered from your own research please.

OC

[andrew193]

So it is this one then, if you are positive it is the Preston one and not the one born in Fulwood Workhouse the same year?

John William Eccles, bp 16 Feb 1894, mother Mary Eccles of Back Leeming Street. Preston.

There is not one mention of a Mitchell Eccles anywhere on Freebmd. In fact the only mention I found is this and I have no idea if it is relevant

Thomas Mitchell Eccles, son of Thomas Eccles and Jane, born 13 Aug 1835 bap 28 Sep 1835, at Chapel Street Independent Blackburn. Abode not given.

OC

Thanks for this Olde Crone Holden as this confirms who his Mother is (Mary Eccles) As regards the "Mitchell" part of you post you won't find it as he added it to his name, for reasons unknown though i think to hide his illegitimacy, when he married and emigrated.

[andrew193]

Nor am I seeing a John William Eccles born in 1891? There is one but both his parents are given, so he was not Mary,s son. Not important because you say he died, but it does mean I am questioning your research. Can you say what hard facts you have discovered from your own research please.

OC

Olde Crone this is where things get a bit complicated. The first "John William" was the one born in 1891 but he died in infancy to parents William Thomas Eccles & Jane Eccles. Mary Eccles is the child of these parents who had a relationship with my G/Grandfather, even though he was already married, and the second "John William" B 1894 is the product of this.