Help needed with Ann Colman of Norfolk, believed to have been transported c1809.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

In May 1799 Ann Lever married Edward Thoresby at Worstead, Norfolk. Edward died in April 1802 and in September 1802 Ann married for a second time, her groom was Philip Colman. A daughter Rebecca Colman was born at Worstead 5 Feb 1803, and a second known daughter, Mary Ann Colman, was baptised at Trunch Norfolk 7 March 1808. Nothing further is known about Philip, apart from the fact that he was a seaman.
In January 1809 Ann was prosecuted at Norwich for larceny, along with her brother-in-law Stephen Colman – both were sentenced to transportation. Local Trunch residents appealed for leniency to be shown to Stephen (led astray by his wicked elder sister-in-law, with whom he lived/lodged) and he served six years on the hulk “Retribution” before being pardoned in February 1815.
Ann was one of 7 female prisoners removed from Norwich gaol on 17 January 1809. Was she transported to Australia and if so, what became of her?
(Stephen Colman went back to Trunch, married and raised a family in the village – he was my 3Xgt godfather. I don’t know who raised the two little daughters of Philip & Ann Colman, but both girls eventually married in Norwich in the 1820’s.)
Will be grateful for any help with this one.
Jay

[Macbev]

Ann Colman appears in these records

http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/coleman/ann/106220

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks Bev, that's a great start to know that she definitely was transported and to have the sailing dates and the name of the ship.

Very grateful for your help.

Jay

[Vacumatic]

What a remarkable story, could write a good book with this as the starter.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for your interest, Vacumatic.
I was lucky enough to have a random search of newspaper archives throw up a report of the court appearance.
As Stephen was born in the 1780's, way before census records, all I'd had to go on were entries in parish registers, which recorded Stephen was born, married, widowed and buried in the same Norfolk village. Hmm, probably never been more than walking distance away from home during the whole of his life, thought I. How wrong can you get?
I was delighted with the discovery of a colourful past (at last!) My friends, however, found my reaction rather strange and thought I should have been horrified and have kept quiet about such criminal ancestry.

Jay

[Guest]

I love finding wrong uns in my tree get so bored with nice people, I never understand why people should be horrified after all its not their fault.

[Vacumatic]

Its remarkable, part of what drives us on in this hobby. I went from a very religous family in Worcestshire, then hit by the death of a man in his 20s with three children, one of whom was jailed for stealing a chicken for the table, who then moved to the factories of the West Midlands, 10 children in a 2 bedroomed house, they stayed there for almost a century. The family was torn apart by WW1 and I am now trying to piece together what happened to who and why 1918-50.

[Guest]

there are a few Ann Colman deaths in Australia on family search

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Aann~%20%2Bsurname%3Acolman~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22norfolk%20england%22~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1775-1790~%20%2Bdeath_place%3Aaustralia~&death_place0=2

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks Val, I'll investigate those.

I do wonder whether she "married" in Australia?? The dates of the second marriage (5 months after the death of husband 1) and the birth of first child with Philip suggest she may have liked male company?? ;D

Jay

[Mary from Italy]

I'm just having a look at the convict records on Ancestry, and there are several for her.

One of them refers to her as "Ann ux. Philip Coleman" (ux being the abbreviation of uxor, Latin for wife):

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=xpQ3211&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&db=ausconvictothers&so=2&pcat=40&gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gsfn=ann*&gsfn_x=1&gsln=col*man&gsln_x=1&msypn__ftp=Australia&msypn=5027&msypn_PInfo=3-|0|1652397|0|5027|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|&msypn_x=1&msypn__ftp_x=1&cpxt=1&cp=2&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=2&uidh=yc2

but another, under the heading "how disposed of", says "wife to Mr Nowland" (or maybe Newland):

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1183/IMAUS1787_114213-00041/395795?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dxpQ3211%26_phstart%3dsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dnswshipmuster%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d40%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dann*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dcol*man%26gsln_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp%3dAustralia%26msypn%3d5027%26msypn_PInfo%3d3-%257c0%257c1652397%257c0%257c5027%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c%26msypn_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d2%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dyc2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=IMAUS1787_114213-00042

I can't see a marriage for her to a Nowland in the NSW BMD records, but there is a marriage for an Ann Nowland to William Ratnell in Sydney in 1823:

https://lifelink.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?4

I think the husband may be the William Ratnett who was transported for life to NSW on the Atlas in 1816:

http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/ratnett/william/55868

In theory the marriage cert should give her age, birthplace and parents' names, but they may not appear at such an early date. I haven't found an obvious death for her yet, or any Nowland or Ratnell/Ratnett children.

[Mary from Italy]

This looks like it might be Ann's baptism:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&englishSubcountryName=Norfolk&query=%2Bgivenname%3Aann*~%20%2Bsurname%3Alever~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aengland%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1750-1783~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22England%2CNorfolk%22

in which case her parents were James and Mary.

[Mary from Italy]

Ignore that Ratnett marriage; I've just found it on Ancestry, and the bride was transported on the Elizabeth, so it's the wrong person.

[Katarzyna]

Name Philip Colman
Event Type Christening
Event Date 13 Aug 1761
Event Place Tunstead, Norfolk, England (2KM S Worstead)
Gender Male
Father's Name Philip
Mother's Name Mary

Image on Family Search

[Katarzyna]

Maybe the Colman brothers' mother?

Name Elizabeth Colman
Event Type Burial
Event Date 12 Nov 1805
Event Place Tunstead, Norfolk, England
Gender Female
Spouse's Name Wm Colman

[Macbev]

You may find this interesting, as a description of what awaited Ann when she arrived in NSW

http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/confem.html

[Macbev]

You may care to share your knowledge of Ann on this data base set up by an Australian genealogist (sadly, now deceased)who put a huge amount of effort into collating information on convicts.

http://www.hawkesbury.net.au/claimaconvict/convictDetails.php?convictId=53116

She was still using the 'Coleman' name in 1811 when she appeared on this convict muster

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1185/IMAUS1787_114215-00013/9029?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dHO10Musters%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dann%26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dcoleman%26gsln_x%3d0%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dxi1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Macbev]

The 1817 muster says she is married to James.....can't decipher the surname :(.....it's line 13 from the bottom of the page

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1183/IMAUS1787_114216-00114?pid=33670&backurl=//search.ancestry.com//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DmMp8623%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3Dann%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dcoleman%26gsln_x%3D0%26msady%3D1809%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dxi1%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3D33670%26recoff%3D4%25205%26dbid%3D1183%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=mMp8623&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=IMAUS1787_114216-00115

The 1818 convict muster shows her going to Port Dalrymple, on the Tamar River, Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania)

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1183/IMAUS1787_114217-00230?pid=57433&backurl=//search.ancestry.com//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DmMp8623%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3Dann%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dcoleman%26gsln_x%3D0%26msady%3D1809%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dxi1%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3D57433%26recoff%3D4%25205%26dbid%3D1183%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=mMp8623&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=IMAUS1787_114217-00230

You will need to progress to the following page to see where she was 'disposed'

The 1820 muster mentions she was married in Sydney, as does the 1821 muster

I must say, I don't know why she is still appearing on the muster rolls, as her sentence was supposed to have expired in 1816. I haven't traced a convict in NSW before...perhaps the authorities were required to keep tabs on ex-cons

[Macbev]

Ann was given her 'ticket of freedom' 26 Feb 1811. She was resident in Sydney at that time. I'll have to check, but I think that ticket allowed convicts out on a sort of parole to seek employment and earn a living for themselves

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1689/41493_329116-00210?pid=40720&backurl=//search.ancestry.com//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DmMp8623%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3Dann%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dcoleman%26gsln_x%3D0%26msady%3D1809%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dxi1%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3D40720%26recoff%3D8%25209%26dbid%3D1689%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D7&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=mMp8623&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Macbev]

Did Ann return to England in 1817?

Her release and application to travel on the 'Kangaroo'

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1905/32086_228448-00563/26392?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1905/32086_228407-00371?pid=150351&backurl=//search.ancestry.com//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DmMp8650%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dann%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dcoleman%26gsln_x%3D0%26MSAV%3D1%26gskw%3Dsydney%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Dm%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D2%26catbucket%3Drstp%26uidh%3Dxi1%26pcat%3D36%26h%3D150351%26recoff%3D7%25208%26dbid%3D1905%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D46&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=mMp8650&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

http://interactive.ancestry.com/1905/32086_228448-00560?pid=26348&backurl=//search.ancestry.com//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DmMp8650%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dann%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dcoleman%26gsln_x%3D0%26MSAV%3D1%26gskw%3Dsydney%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Dm%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D2%26catbucket%3Drstp%26uidh%3Dxi1%26pcat%3D36%26h%3D26348%26recoff%3D7%25208%26dbid%3D1905%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D48&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=mMp8650&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Mary, thank you for your searches on our behalf.

Kat, Ann's second husband Philip Colman was born at Trunch, where he was bp 27 Oct 1873. (Lots of Colman families in that area of Norfolk and most of the different strands used Philip as one of their male forenames, along with Stephen and Jonathan.)

Bev, thank you for those amazing links. I don't have Ancestry worldwide, but can access it at the library when I go to town next week. In the meantime, I'll pass all this on to a lady who runs a website about the Norfolk village where Ann and her brother-in-law lived. She has created a "Colman" page and is eager to add to it. The link about convict life is very interesting - a new research territory for me to investigate. I've had several emigrants turn up on my tree, but Ann is my first convict link.

Jay