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  • Help please for a new beginner

    Hi Ive just started my family tree and it is alot harder than I thought, any help would be greatly appreciated, basically im stuck, so far I have
    Bernard Burgin 22nd September 1894
    Elsie Lightowler 1893
    I know they married in Pontefract in 1917,
    according to the marriage certificate his father was William and her father was Thomas
    What I am stuck on is how do I know I have the right people?
    According to the 1891 census William was living with a Emily which on Bernards birth details says she is his mother
    Then on the 1901 census it shows he is living with William Burgin and Theresa (Rose) Could William have been remarried? Or is this a different family?
    I really dont want to go down the wrong path, Ive been up all night addicted to the laptop but dont seem to be getting anywhere, Thank you

  • #2
    Originally posted by clarefrog View Post
    Hi Ive just started my family tree and it is alot harder than I thought, any help would be greatly appreciated, basically im stuck, so far I have
    Bernard Burgin 22nd September 1894
    Elsie Lightowler 1893
    I know they married in Pontefract in 1917,
    according to the marriage certificate his father was William and her father was Thomas
    What I am stuck on is how do I know I have the right people?
    According to the 1891 census William was living with a Emily which on Bernards birth details says she is his mother
    Then on the 1901 census it shows he is living with William Burgin and Theresa (Rose) Could William have been remarried? Or is this a different family?
    I really dont want to go down the wrong path, Ive been up all night addicted to the laptop but dont seem to be getting anywhere, Thank you
    Hi, welcome to the forum.

    You must always start a tree with yourself or the person the tree is about and work backwards getting certificates along the way to prove what you see in census records and Birth Death and Marriage indexes.

    In order for us to understand what you are trying to do what relation are these people you are talking about? How did you know their names?

    Margaret

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    • #3
      Looking the 1911 census for the same family it shows that William and Theresa have only been married 10 years but Bernard is 19 so there must have been a remarriage.

      On the 1901 census you mention there is a step son Laurence shown as Burgin but no doubt actually whatever Theresa's married name was. You mention Rose as a surname but that might not be her maiden name.

      Margaret
      Last edited by margaretmarch; 18-12-16, 12:47.

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      • #4
        You do need to be careful here as I can see 2 Bernard Burgins born around the same time and also 2 Elsie Lightowlers!

        Margaret

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        • #5
          editted

          Laurence, the stepson, belongs to Emily Brown, who married William Burgin in 1894. However, only Bernard seems to have a mother, MMN Brown. Laura has MMN Marriott, Norman MMN Wilkinson.

          I have not yet checked to see what Emily's maiden name was before she (presumably) married Mr Brown.

          There is also an older daughter on the 1891 census, Mary b. 1890
          Last edited by Macbev; 18-12-16, 13:46.

          Beverley



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          • #6
            Sorry for the confusion, im so confused myself lol, Basically im searching for my mothers paternal side, she didnt really know that side of the family but she has her fathers birth certificate and she remembers her grand mother being called Elsie Lightowler.
            The tree starts from
            me Clare ****** 1983 Leeds
            mum **** 1961 Leeds
            grandmother E***** H***** 1936 Leeds
            grandfather D***** ****** 1939 Leeds
            great grandmother Elsie Lightowler 1893
            great grandfather Bernard Burgin 1894

            I have found Elsie and Bernard living together on the 1939 register, on the search the surname comes up as Bungie but looking at the original document you can see that its Bergin.
            My mum remembers her father David having a sister, she cant remember her name but she said my grandma told mum that the sister wanted to take one of her children as she couldnt have any of her own, mum also said that her father was a cruel man so grandma fled from him, I would love to find out if he went on to have more children so my mum would have other siblings, also did her aunt marry, there is so much I want to find out for her, Thanks for your help
            Last edited by Jill on the A272; 18-12-16, 15:10. Reason: possible living people

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            • #7
              Your profile does not give any clues to where you live at present, UK or abroard, if in the UK near Leeds or distant etc.

              If possible your best course of action would be to visit Leeds and check the registers at the registrars there. By searching the Superintendent Registrar's registers you could build up a view of the family of your grandmum and grandad. Failing this you could check the births & deaths on the GRO database or on FreeBMD but visiting Leeds would also allow you to check other records such as the Electoral Registers (to find if they moved house and cemetery records to find the burial records of those who died.
              There may also be snippets of information in the local history library at Leeds (such as newspaper reports perhaps of births & death or other news) and records in the Leeds archives.

              Cheers
              Guy
              Guy passed away October 2022

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              • #8
                I live in leeds thank you for all your help

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                • #9
                  clarefrog we cannot name possibly living people so have edited your post

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                  • #10
                    William Burgin b. abt 1862, s/o Thomas BURGIN
                    mar.
                    A. Kate Emily Bertha WILLIAMSON, afterwards known mainly as 'Emily', b. 3 Jul 1858 Aldershott Hampshire; bapt 15 Jul 1861 St Peter's Liverpool Lancs; d/o Ezra Williamson & Mary Ann Tweed. She mar.
                    1. Alfred BROWN, s/o John Brown and Kate (later MARRIOTT) 19 Apr 1877 Dresden Staffs. Children from this marriage were:
                    1. Emily BROWN b. 1878 Longton Staffs
                    2. Lissie (or Jessie) BROWN, b. 1879 Longton Staffs
                    3. Laurence BROWN, b. 1883 Broughton Manchester

                    Alfred BROWN died or disappeared between 1883 and 1890. By then she must have been living with William BURGIN as there were two daughters born before her second marriage
                    1. Mary Amelia BURGIN, b. 1890 Chapeltown nr Ecclesfield Yorks
                    2. Laura BURGIN b. Oct 1891 Chapeltown YORKS
                    Both these births show mmn as MARRIOTT, but the bapt notes state the mother is Kate Emily. I believe she was using her mother's name, perhaps because she was not married at that time.

                    Emily and William married 23 Apr 1894 St Andrew Manchester and another son was born
                    3. Bernard BURGIN, b. 22 Sep 1894 Chapeltown, mmn BROWN

                    4. Norman Edward BURGIN was born 1897 at Kimberworth Yorks, mmn WILKINSON. I don't know what this means......was Emily dead and William with another partner?

                    William BURGIN mar
                    B. Theresa ROSE 18 Apr 1900 Chapeltown Yorks. She was the d/o Samuel & Hannah ROSE, b. abt 1868 Ecclesfield Yorks. There were three children born after this marriage
                    1. Doris BURGIN, b. 1901 Kimberworth Yorks
                    2. Horace Burgin, b. 1908 Kimberworth Yorks
                    3. Harold BURGIN, b. 1910 Kimberworth Yorks.

                    I have noted that the Williamsons and Browns seem to have been unusually mobile as families, but perhaps Ezra's occupation in the ship building industry accounts for his travels, while Alfred Brown seems to have been a painter....whether of houses etc or pictures, I don't know.

                    I think this is substantially true, but I am happy to be corrected, as it is a complicated family. You will need to do the work to verify that this is the William BURGIN who is your ancestor, but at least the morass of marriages and step children might be easier to follow.
                    Last edited by Macbev; 18-12-16, 17:10.

                    Beverley



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                    • #11
                      Thank You so much!!! I have researched all this information today and it confused me so much but all the names you have put I have on my tree so I think Im definitely on the right path, I really appreciate you doing this, it has sorted my confusion out, Thankyou again

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                      • #12
                        Have sent you a private message Clare. Look for 'notifications' at the very top of the screen and click on the 'down' arrow to open your Inbox.

                        Beverley



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                        • #13
                          Clare, you introduce yourself as new to this (seriously addictive) hobby. If you haven't already done so, you could do a lot worse than have a quick look at the one of links that's in the bar at the top of the page, "Starting Out on Your Research": there are lots of really useful hints there, and you might save yourself some of the pitfalls that others have got caught out by.

                          In general - go for originals, where you can, rather than transcriptions; remember that even certificates are only as reliable as the person supplying the information (lots of reasons why it could be inaccurate); and try to get more than one source to verify anything significant.

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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