Below are the details as I have them, for my apparently unbreakable brick wall – Hopefully you may help to knock it down.
My apologies for the length, but cannot make it any shorter.
I have spent the past 26 years researching my Family Tree, DEAS/DUNN, in Scotland, I have 2215 people in my tree, and I have got back to 1654 on my DEAS side and 1825 on my DUNN side, all with copies of registrations or copies of certificates and census returns, using SCOTLANDS PEOPLE web site, which provides much more useful information than English Records, hence my problem, I have one English entrance into my Family Tree, that being my Great Grandmother on my Father’s side.
She is named FRANCES WHITE born about either 1842 or 1844 according to her MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, which took place on 6th January 1874 in KIRKALDY, FIFE, SCOTLAND- her age is entered as 30 years married to JOHN DEAS born 12 October 1846, in PATHHEAD, DYSART, FIFE, SCOTLAND, her address at time of marriage is entered as MARYLEBONE, LONDON. (I could find no definite info on her in that area)
I have a copy of her DEATH REGISTRATION entry for 29th FEBRUARY 1908 residence was 3 KINNAIRD BANK, PERTH, SCOTLAND. Her age is entered as 66 years, which suggests date of birth being 1842, not 1844.
I can find no identifiable trace of her Birth Registration, or Census entries, as I do not know where she was born, I suspect she was born in the MIDDLESEX/SUSSEX/HAMPSHIRE AREA and possibly BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, or NORTHHAMPTONSHIRE, maybe even NOTTINGHAMSHIRE only because they contain HAMSHIRE in the name, I have looked into those three in addition as entries on census returns in Scotland mention HAMPSHIRE, (I wonder if she could only remember the Hampshire bit) there are plenty of FRANCES and FANNY WHITES showing up in those areas, but nothing to tie her up with her parents as stated on her Marriage Certificate = JAMES WHITE & SARAH ANN SANDFORD or, as on her Death Certificate her Father is entered as JOHN JAMES WHITE (occupation = butler)- entry for her mother is not her original mother but her Fathers second wife as a MARY ANN MORGAN (both deceased by that time) (have not traced them)
However , I do have all the records for the children that FRANCES DEAS (nee WHITE) and her husband JOHN DEAS brought into the world, those being :-
JOHN WHITE DEAS b. 23rd OCTOBER 1876 in DYSART, FIFE. (My Grandfather)
CHARLES BAXTER DEAS b. 3rd SEPTEMBER 1879 in DYSART, FIFE.
WALTER DEAS b. 1882 in DYSART, FIFE.
I learned that CHARLES BAXTER DEAS had moved down to LONDON to work and got married there and died there.
I did a census check and discovered him in the 1901 CENSUS showing him residing at that time at 25 St Mary’s TERRACE, ST. MARY, PADDINGTON, LONDON. He was listed as NEPHEW with a family called BURLEY the head of which was called CHARLES BURLEY – wife – MARY ANN BURLEY (soon to discover nee WHITE)
A search for their MARRIAGE, found 5th OCTOBER 1851 St. MARTIN in the FIELDS, I applied for a copy of her marriage certificate, her Father entered as JAMES WHITE- her Residence at the time of Marriage entered as ROSE STREET, London (no trace of her there in 1851 Census that I can find) Witnessed by a C. WHITE & S. WHITE (I take that to be MARY ANN’S Brother CHARLES B. 1830, and his newly married Wife SUSANNAH WORDSWORTH married earlier that year also in St. MARTIN IN THE FIELDS. 29TH June 1851 b. abt. 1827 Christened 2nd Dec.1827, same place.
FRANCES DEAS (nee WHITE) had another son- JOHN WHITE DEAS (My Grandfather) who married an ALICE MARY CAMPBELL GRAY and had 3 sons, one of which was called JOHN BURLEY DEAS (My Uncle) that triggered my search to find family of Mary Ann Burley (nee White)
The scenario I feel that has taken place is-
A male member of a “WHITE” family in Fife Scotland, Possibly in DYSART/KIRKALDY AREA by the name of JAMES WHITE was born around 1760 in that area of Fife, Scotland.
Between 1780 & 1794 he went down to south of England to the area of LONDON/ MIDDLESEX/SUSSEX/HAMPSHIRE or BUCKINGHAMSHIRE.
He, married a MARY POTTS IN CHICHESTER SUSSEX, on 9th August 1795 and they had a son JAMES WHITE Christened 10th June 1796 in CHICHESTER.
That JAMES WHITE married ANN STEPHENS ON 31ST May 1819 in Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire, England, and had JOHN, or JOHN JAMES b. 1820-1825? MARY ANN b. 1828 & CHARLES b. 1830. (I have both these marriage details)
JAMES or JOHN JAMES WHITE married a SARAH ANN SANDFORD or possibly SANFORD/FORD/FORT abt. 1842 (if at all)
They had the mysterious daughter FRANCES or FANNY WHITE who once of adult age perhaps visited elder relations on her father’s side back in FIFE, SCOTLAND.
She then met with JOHN DEAS of DYSART in FIFE, got married in January 1874 in KIRKALDY FIFE, whereupon their son CHARLES BAXTER DEAS once an adult started the travel south all over again to work, stayed with his AUNT MARY ANN BURLEY (NEE WHITE) and then met and MARRIED his wife , VIOLET SUTHERLAND.
CHARLES BAXTER DEAS lived in ACTON until he died in 1956 residing in MAIDAVALE MANSIONS, PADDINGTON.
I feel that we are looking for a:-
JAMES or JOHN JAMES WHITE, born abt. 1820/25 possibly in LONDON or MIDDLESEX
Or JOHN WHITE born abt. 1820/25 possibly in LONDON (I wonder if FRANCES got mixed up as to Whether her father was a James or John
MARY ANN WHITE (married CHARLES BURLEY) born abt. 1828 St. ANNS, SOHO, STRAND, WESTMINSTER, LONDON (every Census her age given is never accurate.( I have wedding certificate)
CHARLES WHITE born 1830 FRIMLEY HAMPSHIRE (I have also looked up Fawley & Firley in
SURREY. (also have their marriage details)
The only trace of all above together anywhere is in the 1841 Census, the year I would expect to see almost all together due to ages, in PORTSEA with parents –JAMES WHITE & ANN STEPHENS, an entry for a JAMES WHITE aged 20 and a SARAH FORT ARE ON THE NEXT PAGE – but need the proof ,so far cannot find any details of a marriage between them.
I cannot supply any more info on this, other than I have searched all the best sites for the required records to no avail so far.
I would be happy just to find out the BIRTH DETAILS of FRANCES or FANNY WHITE with possibly her Parents’ MARRIAGE & BIRTH DETAILS. Both their parents’ details would be a huge bonus.
I have searched many data base’s with no success .
My sole interest now is to complete all I mention above and maybe continue to find more of the WHITE FAMILY in SCOTLAND BACK THE WAY using SCOTLANDS PEOPLE, where you get Mother and Fathers names and towns on Birth Records and Marriage records
Can you help, if so I would be very grateful. Tom Deas
My apologies for the length, but cannot make it any shorter.
I have spent the past 26 years researching my Family Tree, DEAS/DUNN, in Scotland, I have 2215 people in my tree, and I have got back to 1654 on my DEAS side and 1825 on my DUNN side, all with copies of registrations or copies of certificates and census returns, using SCOTLANDS PEOPLE web site, which provides much more useful information than English Records, hence my problem, I have one English entrance into my Family Tree, that being my Great Grandmother on my Father’s side.
She is named FRANCES WHITE born about either 1842 or 1844 according to her MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, which took place on 6th January 1874 in KIRKALDY, FIFE, SCOTLAND- her age is entered as 30 years married to JOHN DEAS born 12 October 1846, in PATHHEAD, DYSART, FIFE, SCOTLAND, her address at time of marriage is entered as MARYLEBONE, LONDON. (I could find no definite info on her in that area)
I have a copy of her DEATH REGISTRATION entry for 29th FEBRUARY 1908 residence was 3 KINNAIRD BANK, PERTH, SCOTLAND. Her age is entered as 66 years, which suggests date of birth being 1842, not 1844.
I can find no identifiable trace of her Birth Registration, or Census entries, as I do not know where she was born, I suspect she was born in the MIDDLESEX/SUSSEX/HAMPSHIRE AREA and possibly BUCKINGHAMSHIRE, or NORTHHAMPTONSHIRE, maybe even NOTTINGHAMSHIRE only because they contain HAMSHIRE in the name, I have looked into those three in addition as entries on census returns in Scotland mention HAMPSHIRE, (I wonder if she could only remember the Hampshire bit) there are plenty of FRANCES and FANNY WHITES showing up in those areas, but nothing to tie her up with her parents as stated on her Marriage Certificate = JAMES WHITE & SARAH ANN SANDFORD or, as on her Death Certificate her Father is entered as JOHN JAMES WHITE (occupation = butler)- entry for her mother is not her original mother but her Fathers second wife as a MARY ANN MORGAN (both deceased by that time) (have not traced them)
However , I do have all the records for the children that FRANCES DEAS (nee WHITE) and her husband JOHN DEAS brought into the world, those being :-
JOHN WHITE DEAS b. 23rd OCTOBER 1876 in DYSART, FIFE. (My Grandfather)
CHARLES BAXTER DEAS b. 3rd SEPTEMBER 1879 in DYSART, FIFE.
WALTER DEAS b. 1882 in DYSART, FIFE.
I learned that CHARLES BAXTER DEAS had moved down to LONDON to work and got married there and died there.
I did a census check and discovered him in the 1901 CENSUS showing him residing at that time at 25 St Mary’s TERRACE, ST. MARY, PADDINGTON, LONDON. He was listed as NEPHEW with a family called BURLEY the head of which was called CHARLES BURLEY – wife – MARY ANN BURLEY (soon to discover nee WHITE)
A search for their MARRIAGE, found 5th OCTOBER 1851 St. MARTIN in the FIELDS, I applied for a copy of her marriage certificate, her Father entered as JAMES WHITE- her Residence at the time of Marriage entered as ROSE STREET, London (no trace of her there in 1851 Census that I can find) Witnessed by a C. WHITE & S. WHITE (I take that to be MARY ANN’S Brother CHARLES B. 1830, and his newly married Wife SUSANNAH WORDSWORTH married earlier that year also in St. MARTIN IN THE FIELDS. 29TH June 1851 b. abt. 1827 Christened 2nd Dec.1827, same place.
FRANCES DEAS (nee WHITE) had another son- JOHN WHITE DEAS (My Grandfather) who married an ALICE MARY CAMPBELL GRAY and had 3 sons, one of which was called JOHN BURLEY DEAS (My Uncle) that triggered my search to find family of Mary Ann Burley (nee White)
The scenario I feel that has taken place is-
A male member of a “WHITE” family in Fife Scotland, Possibly in DYSART/KIRKALDY AREA by the name of JAMES WHITE was born around 1760 in that area of Fife, Scotland.
Between 1780 & 1794 he went down to south of England to the area of LONDON/ MIDDLESEX/SUSSEX/HAMPSHIRE or BUCKINGHAMSHIRE.
He, married a MARY POTTS IN CHICHESTER SUSSEX, on 9th August 1795 and they had a son JAMES WHITE Christened 10th June 1796 in CHICHESTER.
That JAMES WHITE married ANN STEPHENS ON 31ST May 1819 in Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire, England, and had JOHN, or JOHN JAMES b. 1820-1825? MARY ANN b. 1828 & CHARLES b. 1830. (I have both these marriage details)
JAMES or JOHN JAMES WHITE married a SARAH ANN SANDFORD or possibly SANFORD/FORD/FORT abt. 1842 (if at all)
They had the mysterious daughter FRANCES or FANNY WHITE who once of adult age perhaps visited elder relations on her father’s side back in FIFE, SCOTLAND.
She then met with JOHN DEAS of DYSART in FIFE, got married in January 1874 in KIRKALDY FIFE, whereupon their son CHARLES BAXTER DEAS once an adult started the travel south all over again to work, stayed with his AUNT MARY ANN BURLEY (NEE WHITE) and then met and MARRIED his wife , VIOLET SUTHERLAND.
CHARLES BAXTER DEAS lived in ACTON until he died in 1956 residing in MAIDAVALE MANSIONS, PADDINGTON.
I feel that we are looking for a:-
JAMES or JOHN JAMES WHITE, born abt. 1820/25 possibly in LONDON or MIDDLESEX
Or JOHN WHITE born abt. 1820/25 possibly in LONDON (I wonder if FRANCES got mixed up as to Whether her father was a James or John
MARY ANN WHITE (married CHARLES BURLEY) born abt. 1828 St. ANNS, SOHO, STRAND, WESTMINSTER, LONDON (every Census her age given is never accurate.( I have wedding certificate)
CHARLES WHITE born 1830 FRIMLEY HAMPSHIRE (I have also looked up Fawley & Firley in
SURREY. (also have their marriage details)
The only trace of all above together anywhere is in the 1841 Census, the year I would expect to see almost all together due to ages, in PORTSEA with parents –JAMES WHITE & ANN STEPHENS, an entry for a JAMES WHITE aged 20 and a SARAH FORT ARE ON THE NEXT PAGE – but need the proof ,so far cannot find any details of a marriage between them.
I cannot supply any more info on this, other than I have searched all the best sites for the required records to no avail so far.
I would be happy just to find out the BIRTH DETAILS of FRANCES or FANNY WHITE with possibly her Parents’ MARRIAGE & BIRTH DETAILS. Both their parents’ details would be a huge bonus.
I have searched many data base’s with no success .
My sole interest now is to complete all I mention above and maybe continue to find more of the WHITE FAMILY in SCOTLAND BACK THE WAY using SCOTLANDS PEOPLE, where you get Mother and Fathers names and towns on Birth Records and Marriage records
Can you help, if so I would be very grateful. Tom Deas
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