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Finding parents w/ limited info, USA 1800s

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  • Finding parents w/ limited info, USA 1800s

    Hi all. I was hoping I could get some insight on a puzzle I'm facing.


    I hadn’t been able to find my 2nd great-grandmother’s parents. I seemed to have no clues. Then I just found one yesterday, exciting! I found her marriage certificate and found that it was signed by her brother and “next of kin”, he gave the consent for her marriage, which I *think* means they were dead or missing? Not sure…I hadn’t found any siblings yet so this is a great clue. I’ve tried searching for him, though, and can’t find him. The only info I could get was the sparse details from the marriage license.


    Her name was Susie Mansker (b. Jul 30, 1893 OK / d. Jul 16, 1972 CA) and her husband was James Arthur Simpson (b. Mar. 28, 1888, AK / d. Sep 7, 1968 CA) Her brother, interestingly, has the same initials. J.A. And that’s all he signed with - J.A. Mansker. He says he’s 34 and the marriage is in 1909, so I believe that’d make his birth year abt. 1875? It’s possible he was born in OK like his sister, but not for certain. (Marriage license)


    When I search for him in OK, as well as AK because his sister lived there later on so maybe he joined them, I do find an A. J. Mansker who keeps popping up, from Texas. But I can’t find anything linking him to Susie. I also found someone with a similar name living on a Cherokee reservation back then, and that side of my family is *supposedly* linked on quite a few branches to Native Americans, but I don’t know for sure. She was only 16 when she was married so I thought perhaps she lived with him, maybe show up on a census together, but no luck.


    Any thoughts? I use Family Search as a resource, as well as a connection to Ancestry through my library that I access from home. It has tons of the same stuff as Ancestry's subscription but not everything. I've also tried Chronicling America for newspaper articles, found nothing. Apparently Mansker is an Americanized version of Mainzger, a German surname, so maybe her parents were German. Not sure if that's helpful.

    Contradictorily, I've found some census records that add confusion. These could be different people. I have a 1910 census that looks like her and her husband (here, at bottom of page) that lists her parent's birthplaces as Mexico. Then I have a 1920 census that could be them. (Here, middle of page) It lists "Head 1" as what appears to be her father-in-law and "Head 2" as her husband. This Susie, however, has parents born in Texas and Arkansas. This one is *definitely* her, as all the children are correct for my family. 1930 census (here, very bottom of page) has what looks like the same family. It says Arthur Simpson but my gg-grandpa was "James Arthur" - the kids names all look right. So I'd think - also *definitely* her. But this Susie's parents were born in Texas and Tennessee. (??!!) Not including 1940 census as it doesn't ask for parent's info.

    What else could I do to find out more about her family?
    Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

  • #2
    I don't know if this is anything but wondered if you had come across this A J

    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


    Texas Deaths
    Name A J Mansker
    Event Type Death
    Event Date 15 Aug 1936
    Event Place , Tarrant, Texas, United States
    Gender Male
    Marital Status Married
    Birth Date 07 Jun 1875
    Birthplace Bethpage, Tennessee
    Father's Name Jim Mansker
    Certificate Number 42855
    Elaine

    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Also 1900

      Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


      A J Mausker in New Mexico born Tenn.
      Last edited by Elaine; 30-11-16, 22:53.
      Elaine

      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Looking at draft reg he's Andrew John Mansker, not getting anywhere otherwise!
        Elaine

        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes I think that's one of the ones I came across. I'm definitely leaning towards at least investigating a Mansker that has similar initials and born in Texas, as both the 1920 and 1930 census, which I think are correct despite different birth places for mom, have Texas as father's birthplace.
          Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

          Comment


          • #6
            so, have you purchased her death certificate...it might have her parents' names.

            Not finding her in the 1900 & 1910 may also be a clue about her: she may not have known the details about her parents. She may have been fostered by relatives, traveled with her brother, etc. And, of course, if she didn't know much about her parents, then neither would the informant on her DC.

            And you can also purchase her brother's DC and hope the informant knew the info. And, if he married, purchase his marriage cert and hope it has his parents' names. Note: they may only have been half-sibs. Or their relationship is misrepresented on the cert - perhaps he's an uncle or cousin. She married underage, and the law may have required a family member's consent. Perhaps her parents were deceased - but perhaps she & her brother were estranged from them, had run away, and they merely misrepresented that when they appeared in front of the clerk.

            I think we talked about genetic genealogy in a previous thread? Has anyone on this line tested? Altho I am skeptical about "ethnicities" estimated by the testing companies, they may give you a broad view of ancestral groups. Do you, or another family member, have a direct maternal line back to Susie? If so, doing mtDNA might be worth pursuing. 23andme would provide both autsomal (basically, their version of the test done by AncestryDNA) plus mtDNA haplogroup (and if a male is tested, also his Y-DNA haplogroup).

            Today, AncestryDNA is US$89, ftDNA is US$59 and 23andme is US$99 (genealogy only)

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm wondering if this could be James in the 1900. THere are reasons I like it, and a couple I don't


              So, notice that Louis & Margrett have only been married 12 years, but there are two sons age 16 - William and James - and even tho they're the same age, they have different birth months (James = Mar; William = June or maybe Jan). Most women can't do that. So I think this James got the wrong DOB in the 1900. And the DC has his birth month as Dec not Mar. I'm liking the idea that he may not have known his DOB.

              And the marriage to Margrett happened in 1888. Hmmm. If his birth year is off by one, perhaps his mother died in childbirth?

              Did you notice that James DC index lists his MMN as Harbison? I can't find an Arkansas marriage between Simpson and Harbison.

              BTW: AK= Alaska; AR = Arkansas

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                BTW: AK= Alaska; AR = Arkansas
                Whoops! I was never good at state abbreviations lol.

                Always appreciate your input PF! I hadn't found a 1900 census for James before, thank you, I'll definitely save that and look at it more. It matches most of what I have for him at the moment. Also, just sent off my Ancestry DNA test today! :D woohoo

                So I found something interesting today for the Manskers. I came across a website regarding Mansker genealogy. It seems I might have found my family BUT there's some weird discrepancies. Allow me to share. I'm just going to pull right from their descendant's list (which you can view in full if you care to, here) and compare it with my own info, most of which I've cross-referenced and seems to be more correct!

                I found a Susanna Mansker with an older brother with the right initials (J.A.) and that lists a marriage and children that are sooo close to correct yet they arent.

                THEIR info compared to mine, I bolded mine for easy reference.

                SUSANNA6 MANSKER (JOSEPH HOUSTON5, JOSEPH/JOSIAH4, WILLIAM3, GEORGE2, LUDWIG1MÄINTZGER) was born Circa 1888 (My info says 1893). She married ARTHUR SIMPSON (James Arthur Simpson) 1904. (1909)
                Children of SUSANNA MANSKER and ARTHUR SIMPSON are:
                i. MARION7 SIMPSON, b. Circa 1905. (I have a Marion b. 1913)
                ii. GEORGE SIMPSON, b. Circa 1907. (My George is b. 1911)
                iii. ARTHUR SIMPSON, JR., b. Circa 1909. (I have a Jr also, James Arthur Jr., born 1925)
                iv. LOIS SIMPSON, b. Circa 1911. (If the same, Lois is my great-grandmother, so I know her birthdate: 1919)

                Also, this Susanna has an older brother named James A. (her oldest sibling in fact) b. 1878 AR. My Susie had additional children named Dorthy, Wilbur Earl, Floy Bell (died young), and Ted Robert.

                Do you see what I mean? So similar to mine that it seems completely possible, but different enough that I wonder if it could be coincidence. Much of this Mansker family on the website is based in Arkansas and Oklahoma, which does match my relatives. What do you make of this?? Frustratingly, they give zero sources for their info. So I don't know where this info has been taken from. If I did, I could verify. For all I know, this is family lore. Meaning it could very well be the right people but with the ages all mixed up.
                Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, if you explore the site, it looks like they welcome inquiries - but they also seem to publicly post the inquiries with the sending email address...
                  I think you're on to something. And hopefully descendants of the people you listed have tested.

                  And hopefully you'll have a strong Simpson connection, too! Don't forget to upload your AncestryDNA results to gedmatch.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "iii. ARTHUR SIMPSON, JR., b. Circa 1909. (I have a Jr also, James Arthur Jr., born 1925)"

                    Don't know if you've encountered it yet, but in past generations, when children were at higher risk of dying young, especially in the first 5 years, it was fairly common to reuse given names. This Arthur may have died, and the second one was given it as a middle name.

                    I've begun to believe in time warps - some regions just seem to be on a different calendar than the rest of world ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                      "iii. ARTHUR SIMPSON, JR., b. Circa 1909. (I have a Jr also, James Arthur Jr., born 1925)"

                      Don't know if you've encountered it yet, but in past generations, when children were at higher risk of dying young, especially in the first 5 years, it was fairly common to reuse given names. This Arthur may have died, and the second one was given it as a middle name.

                      I've begun to believe in time warps - some regions just seem to be on a different calendar than the rest of world ;)
                      Oh right, I do forget that sometimes.

                      Do you think, just in your personal opinion, that this could be the right family even with the odd dates?
                      Primarily researching Ashman (very focused on this uncommon surname in the USA!), Martin, Fowler, Munsell, and Huffman. Locations include Ohio, Oregon, Utah, California, Scotland, England, Germany, and Denmark.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would certainly be pursuing it as a strong possibility and contacting the website for more info re: where did their records and info come from. And if there are any known descedants of those lines, and have they tested...

                        Comment

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