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Irish family called Downey

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  • Irish family called Downey

    After some 20 years of research on this family I have found little. John Downey came to Canada in and around 1825 and married an Irish girl called Jane Smith in 1826. He was the enumerator for the 1851 census in his location and from his age at that time he would have been born in and about 1796 or 1797. From family papers I have read here, he would have been born in Downpatrick, County Down. Ireland but have no proof. It was also said he came with two brothers and one could have been called Leo but this name did not show up in the family here for several generations so perhaps untrue. Or at least we have no record of this as a true fact. We do have all the family history here in Canada starting at this point.
    Many have search here for the origins of both John and Jane (born Ireland 1802) without success. Both were Catholics but record of their marriage here show them marrying in a Presbyterian church. Strange.
    Her is a list of John and Jane's children in order of their birth: Michael, Edward, John, Thomas Patrick Richard and Hugh. They had three girls called Nancy Ann, Jane and Catherine. Possibly they followed the traditional method of naming their children but have not found anything using any of these names though the names come up often but unable to determine what would be the correct families.
    Any help I can obtain would be so appreciated.
    Bea

  • #2
    The timescale that you are looking at is long before the start of statutory birth registration in Ireland (1864) and so to trace him you need to rely on church records. You say you think he was born RC in Downpatrick. If so, you have a problem because the RC church there has no records earlier than 1851. The only church with any birth records for that parish is the Church of Ireland (ie Anglican). Their records start in 1733 (with gaps). There are a couple of Presbyterian churches in the parish but neither has anything earlier than 1827. The Church of Ireland records have been copied and are in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. But that apart, there are no baptism records for the period you are interested in. Not an uncommon problem. Few records exist for the 1700s in Ireland.

    DNA testing might be the only way to link up with people in Ireland today.

    I looked at the 1901 census for Co Down. There were 311 Downey and 19 Downie. 245 were RC. The remainder were Protestant denominations.

    There are some Downey/ie families in Co Down on this site:

    Elwyn

    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

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    • #3
      Thanks Elwyn. This has always been the search problem. Old family stories say he came from Downpatrick but have not found anything like due to no records exist from his time of birth. Any records here in Canada always show Ireland and no mention of where in Ireland. In all my time researching I have simply loved European records because they are so detailed. Wish ours were a bit more to give us a helping hand.
      I did see several Downeys on Flax growers list. Could Downeys have had their children baptized in Dublin do you think?
      I also saw a John Downey Armagh private, Dec. 25th 1812 to March 24th, 1812 as 6th foot soldier. He would have been quite young so likely not him.
      Here it was suggested he could have been with a British regiment then came to Canada as a Royal Imperial Loyalists after the 1812 war in US.
      Could never find him on any passenger lists coming to Canada from UK maybe about 1825 or earlier.
      Thanks for helping me.

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      • #4
        In general, tradition was to baptise your children where you lived. You wouldn’t baptise them in Dublin (unless you happened to live there). Downpatrick to Dublin is about 100 miles. In 1796 that was an expensive 3 day journey. No, you would go to the local church where you lived. That’s what people did then, and still do now.

        I wouldn’t assume the other entries you have found eg in the flaxgrowers list or the military record relate to your family unless you have specific information linking to them. It really is a very common surname in Ireland. I gave you the figures for the numbers in Co. Down in 1901. If I widen that for you, there were 3385 Downey and Downie in Ireland that year. So chances are the records you have found relate to someone else.

        Sadly there are no passenger lists for journeys to Canada till about 1850. In effect, UK or Ireland to Canada was regarded as a domestic journey, and there was no need for them.
        Last edited by Elwyn; 24-11-16, 06:17.
        Elwyn

        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Actually Elwyn a chap called Robinson brought many Irish here to Canada in early 1800's. Six ships I think in number but after reviewing all the manifestos from these ships John Downey did not appear anywhere. Discouraging for sure as he came here somehow!
          That is a huge number of Downeys and find it mind blowing. Then he married Jane Smith ...again a very common name so what to do????
          Am still searching here in Canada but like I said it only says he came from Ireland and no further info given.
          Will continue to look everywhere possible but I thank you for you help. Bea

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          • #6
            Still searching at this end for early beginnings of John and Jane Downey. I am told here that Jane's parents were Owen Smith and Mary McAndrews also in late 1790s in Ireland. Jane could well have had a either a sister or an aunt called Elizabeth. I have been unable to find a record placing Owen and Mary together somewhere. Am unsure as to where this info was found by the person who posted this to our family.\Bea

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bea View Post
              Still searching at this end for early beginnings of John and Jane Downey. I am told here that Jane's parents were Owen Smith and Mary McAndrews also in late 1790s in Ireland. Jane could well have had a either a sister or an aunt called Elizabeth. I have been unable to find a record placing Owen and Mary together somewhere. Am unsure as to where this info was found by the person who posted this to our family.\Bea
              I had a look at the Irish RC parish marriage records on Ancestry for Owen and Mary’s marriage around 1800. There are 11 Owen Smith marriages and 2 Mary McAndrews but none are this couple. Again the problem you face is that very few RC parishes in Ireland kept records at that period, so the likelihood is that there is no record of the marriage anywhere.

              Smith/Smyth, unsurprisingly, is one of the most common surnames in Ireland and is found everywhere. McAndrews is less common. You can use this site to see where it was found in the mid 1800s:

              The complete guide to historic Irish Names


              You’ll see that it was mostly in Galway, Leitrim, Mayo & Sligo, but in very low numbers. The site says the name is of Scottish or English origins. That being so, the family might not necessarily be RC. They could be Church of Ireland or Presbyterian.
              Last edited by Elwyn; 23-12-16, 10:58.
              Elwyn

              I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Elwyn....Yes it is a problem for us here as nothing is found in Canadian records that I know of so have no starting point either in Ireland or Scotland/England.
                On the marriage record here for Jane Smith and John Downey in A presbytarian church the record reads Smith but she signed Smyth so not sure which of the two names is correct.
                Rather disappointing. The Smith/McAndrew could well have been before 1800 more like even as early as 1790. Who knows??????
                Bea

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                • #9
                  Re Smith or Smyth, the idea of a single or correct spelling for a surname is very much a recent phenomenon and before that, especially in Ireland, there was no consistency. Names were spelled phonetically and each variation was down to the whim of the particular person recording the information. You will often see the spelling change as the records go back. This rarely indicates a particular deliberate decision to alter the name nor even a mistake. Not everyone was literate, but even when they were, exact spelling simply wasn’t something they bothered about.
                  Elwyn

                  I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am looking at a passenger called John Downey who arrived in Canada from Wexford in 1825 on the Brig. Thomas Farrell.
                    Does anyone know anything about this ship or where could I find more info on these passengers.
                    Bea

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