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Mirrytindle
29-10-16, 17:10
Hi everyone

I would really appreciate some help tracking down a marriage record. Here is some background as to why.

A friends mother is in a nursing home. Her second husband was military and he is now deceased, but the VA have been dragging their feet with paying for her care as he was married before in the 1940's and they want proof of his previous marriage, even though his first wife was deceased in 1976. We have been looking for months, she had even hired a lawyer to assist her but they took her $$ and did nothing.

The marriage I am looking for is the following:-

Garland Finley b 30 June 1910 Hopkins Co, Kentucky and Emma Jean Cox b 14 January 1909 Guilford Co, N Carolina. In 1941 he entered the army and stated he was single. The earliest record I can find these two together is a street directory for 1948 in Owensboro, KY.

I think I have found a 1940 census return for Emma Jean Cox in Lowell, Gaston, North Carolina. I am not sure where exactly they both met or where they were married, but every search is coming up blank.

Any assistance anyone can provide is appreciated.

Mirry

Karamazov
29-10-16, 21:28
It doesn't help with the search for the first marriage but are you aware of this on findagrave which seems to be your man and the first wife you mention?
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82194224

Her name is given as Emma Jean Allindar Finley, same DOB as your Emma Jean and same year of death - I'm guessing that Allindar could be a maiden name as it is italicised but I don't know what the source for it is, as it is not recorded on the accompanying gravestone photo. No mention of Cox.

Puzzling!

Christine

Mirrytindle
29-10-16, 22:17
Hi Christine

Yes I found that info. I also reached out to some family members and they are unaware of the Allindar name, but am still awaiting any info for the marriage.

I'm just going round in circles with these two.

Mirry

PhotoFamily
30-10-16, 00:45
Hi,
As you probably already know - US marriage records are usually held by county clerks, and lots of them are not indexed online. And you can't even be sure that he married in the US - did he serve overseas?

It appears from this record that when he married in 1985 to RHM that he thought he had never been married:
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=KYmarriageindex&h=3016729&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=HZV1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=2441

Do you know where he was living when he separated from his first wife? It might be simpler to locate divorce records, assuming that's what happened. But it sounds like the second marriage happened after the first wife died?? Not sure why the VA needs to know the date of the first marriage if you can prove that she was deceased before the second marriage.

It sounds like your friend's mother might be trying to apply for Aid and Attendance? I've been told multiple times that it's best to hire an attorney to supervise the process. Yes, you'll pay for it, but the approval of the application is more likely to happen, and it's faster than trying on your own.

Places I looked for the MC: genealogybank, ancestry, familysearch

good luck.
sarah

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 10:49
would Emma's death certificate help? [not quite sure what US certs have on them!] parents names perhaps???

maybe he never did marry which is why no evidence can be found? maybe they lived together as though they were married and people presumed that was the case?

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 11:00
It doesn't help with the search for the first marriage but are you aware of this on findagrave which seems to be your man and the first wife you mention?
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=82194224

Her name is given as Emma Jean Allindar Finley, same DOB as your Emma Jean and same year of death - I'm guessing that Allindar could be a maiden name as it is italicised but I don't know what the source for it is, as it is not recorded on the accompanying gravestone photo. No mention of Cox.

Puzzling!

Christine

I have been looking at this Christine, and No-where can I find an Emma Jean Allindar, I have however found an Emma Jean COX in N.Carolina with her parents in 1940 [and before] census,. interestingly she appears in 1948 as Emma J FINLEY. her occupation before 'married' was a teacher. so she might be listed as a teacher in the directories? [though she isn't in the 1948 one!]

PhotoFamily
30-10-16, 14:53
would Emma's death certificate help? [not quite sure what US certs have on them!] parents names perhaps???
Data elements on US death certs vary by state, but generally after about 1910 would include parents' names and places of birth - as known to the informant
Privacy laws vary by state, too, so the record may not yet be available. You would most likely need to contact the county clerk. Many vital records are also available thru several online companies.

I've been suggesting newspapers because if you can find an announcement then you'd know where & when to look for the cert. Another online newspaper is http://newspaperarchive.com/ or just plain google. If you use the former, I believe you can get a free two week intro sub. Be sure to cancel before the sub is up, and save your cancellation receipt.

PhotoFamily
30-10-16, 14:55
I have been looking at this Christine, and No-where can I find an Emma Jean Allindar, I have however found an Emma Jean COX in N.Carolina with her parents in 1940 [and before] census,. interestingly she appears in 1948 as Emma J FINLEY. her occupation before 'married' was a teacher. so she might be listed as a teacher in the directories? [though she isn't in the 1948 one!]

Makes me wonder if her parents divorced, or her mother was widowed, and Emma Jean used her mother's second husband's surname. I've had relatives do that, even tho there was no official adoption

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 14:59
Data elements on US death certs vary by state, but generally after about 1910 would include parents' names and places of birth - as known to the informant
Privacy laws vary by state, too, so the record may not yet be available. You would most likely need to contact the county clerk. Many vital records are also available thru several online companies.

I've been suggesting newspapers because if you can find an announcement then you'd know where & when to look for the cert. Another online newspaper is http://newspaperarchive.com/ or just plain google. If you use the former, I believe you can get a free two week intro sub. Be sure to cancel before the sub is up, and save your cancellation receipt.

ahh right Sarah.. I did see that there is a d/cert on Vital records to buy, wish I had put the link up now!.. [this was on Ancestry btw] my head isn't quite with it at the moment, but something doesn't sit quite right with the complete lack of info [and him saying that he hadn't been married previously]

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 15:12
aha! found it.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=kyvital&h=795097&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=DNF5905&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=60525

and praps order the last m/cert too.. would then confirm/deny the confusion about whether he was ever married previously?


http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=KYmarriageindex&h=3016729&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=HZV1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=2441

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 15:20
there is a Garland Finlay divorce in Florida in 1961 to Emma Brown

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=DNF5906&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=Garland&gsln=Finley&msdpn__ftp=SC&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=174550&recoff=6%207&db=FLdivorce&indiv=1&ml_rpos=46

nope that's a different one I think

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=DNF5906&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=Garland&gsln=Finley&msdpn__ftp=SC&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=1916010&recoff=5%207&db=FLmarriageindex&indiv=1&ml_rpos=49

Karamazov
30-10-16, 15:47
See bottom line of this transcription of 2nd marriage from FMP. Plus the gravestone inscription re the two of them "Together forever" is not suggestive of divorce.

First name(s) Garland R
Last name Finley
Race White
Age 75
Birth year 1910
Residence Daviess
Year 1985
Month Dec
Day 21
County Daviess
State Kentucky
Spouse's first name(s) -
Spouse's last name -
Spouse's race White
Spouse's age 65
Spouse's residence Daviess
Groom's marital status Last marriage ended by death

I would be tempted to get in touch with the findagrave contributor to see what they might know, as I am puzzled as to where they have got Allindar from as part of her name.

Christine

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 16:03
See bottom line of this transcription of 2nd marriage from FMP. Plus the gravestone inscription re the two of them "Together forever" is not suggestive of divorce.

First name(s) Garland R
Last name Finley
Race White
Age 75
Birth year 1910
Residence Daviess
Year 1985
Month Dec
Day 21
County Daviess
State Kentucky
Spouse's first name(s) -
Spouse's last name -
Spouse's race White
Spouse's age 65
Spouse's residence Daviess
Groom's marital status Last marriage ended by death

I would be tempted to get in touch with the findagrave contributor to see what they might know, as I am puzzled as to where they have got Allindar from as part of her name.

Christine

Yep i'd agree with that too, re Allindar...

to me though this implies he was previously married as 'ended by death' but then he states never was married, so, to me this implies he was living with as though married. I suspect that the certs would clear any 'issues' up ?


something just doesn't 'sit' right though, why be buried with someone you lived with as though married and not be buried with your actual 'wife' or husband? would there have been a will?? [maybe this stated that he wanted to be buried with Emma?]

Karamazov
30-10-16, 16:33
Just to throw some more confusion into the mix...there is a Thelma Jean Finley born 1930 Kentucky with mother Emma Allindar.
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22Thelma%20Jean%22~%20%2Bsur name%3AFinley~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AKentucky~%20%2Bb irth_year%3A1930-1930~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22United%20States%22

But her father is a Chester Finley and the mother Emma Allindar is 47 in 1940 census meaning she was born circa 1893 so can't be the first wife as mentioned in your original post.
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22Thelma%20Jean%22~%20%2Bsur name%3AFinley~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AKentucky~%20%2Bb irth_year%3A1930-1930~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22United%20States%22


Here's part of Thelma's obit from http://web1.lovinghonors.com/cgi-bin/CompanyInternal?stdout+116+barnettstrother.com+102 +17+2932
Mrs. Thelma Jean Brackett, 82, of Madisonville, KY passed away Sunday, October 28th, 2012 at Regional Medical Center.

She was born January 20, 1930 in Hopkins Co., KY to the late Chester Finley and Emma Allinder Finley. She was also preceded by one sister, Agnes Keene.

She's also on findagrave http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=99967002

It's the only Allindar/Finley connection I can find - Allindar is very unusual and doesn't throw up much in searches. My head is spinning now as I have no idea how or even IF there is any connection...
Good luck!

Darksecretz
30-10-16, 17:13
I think someone has presumed that Emma Jean was Emma Allindar and not Emma Jean Cox! but supposition is a dangerous thing!

Karamazov
30-10-16, 17:22
I think someone has presumed that Emma Jean was Emma Allindar and not Emma Jean Cox! but supposition is a dangerous thing!

That's what I am thinking too, hence the suggestion to get in touch with the findagrave contributor for Emma Finley b 1909.

Christine

vera2013
30-10-16, 20:32
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=TNstatemarriages&h=7078150&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=7602

This is a possible for Emma's marriage to Chester A Finley

Emma Genora Allinder
married 02 Dec 1920
Robertson Tennessee

and her death

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=FindAGraveUS&h=39280671&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&rhSource=70633

Emma G Finley
b 06 Oct 1892
d 24 Mar 1991

Odd Fellows Cemetery
Madisonville
Hopkins Co Kentucky

f Joseph Edmond Allendar
m Malisse Agnes Allendar

Not able to see any marriage though for Garland and Emma Jean.

Vera

PhotoFamily
31-10-16, 02:17
Julie, you don't think the link to the first FL divorce record is our couple? I'm not sure that it is, but nor do I know of info that makes me think it isn't?
Also, the city directories that Ancestry is throwing as possible related records (not that you can conclude that the divorce peeps are absolutely the peeps in the directories) - those do seem like our missing couple. Interesting, because that indicates they were married thru at least some of the 50's. And it gives a location for them.
Tried looking for a Newspaper source - no luck but you might try repeating my search for owensboro ky public library - they have a genealogy section. See if you see a person to communicate with.

Darksecretz
31-10-16, 07:55
Julie, you don't think the link to the first FL divorce record is our couple? I'm not sure that it is, but nor do I know of info that makes me think it isn't?
Also, the city directories that Ancestry is throwing as possible related records (not that you can conclude that the divorce peeps are absolutely the peeps in the directories) - those do seem like our missing couple. Interesting, because that indicates they were married thru at least some of the 50's. And it gives a location for them.
Tried looking for a Newspaper source - no luck but you might try repeating my search for owensboro ky public library - they have a genealogy section. See if you see a person to communicate with.

Name: Garland Fay Finley
Gender: Male
Birth year abt 1914
Age: 52
Marriage Date: 31 Oct 1966
Marriage Place: Brazoria, Texas, USA
Spouse: Henrl Clothielde Dougherty
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Age: 46
Source: Texas Marriage Index, 1966-2002

Name: Garland F Finley
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1915
Age: 55
Marriage Date: 25 Mar 1970
Marriage Place: Brazoria, Texas, USA
Spouse: Henri C Dougherty
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Age: 49
Source: Texas Marriage Index, 1966-2002

Name: Garland F. Finley
SSN: 444-05-8144
Last Residence:
74745 Idabel, Mccurtain, Oklahoma, USA
BORN: 20 May 1914
Died: 2 Dec 1989
State (Year) SSN issued: Oklahoma (Before 1951)

It looks like he was born in Oklahoma

Garland in 1920 Oklahoma

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1920usfedcen&indiv=try&h=49433363

and the other one was born in Kentucky..

1920 cens

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=DNF5916&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=garland%20R&gsfn_x=0&gsln=finl**&gsln_x=0&MSAV=1&msbdy=1910&cpxt=1&cp=12&catbucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=59977282&db=1920usfedcen&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

GallowayLass
31-10-16, 08:24
Would Emma Genora Allindar and Emma Jean Allindar not be one and the same person? I can see Jean being a familiar version of Genora.

Darksecretz
31-10-16, 09:30
Would Emma Genora Allindar and Emma Jean Allindar not be one and the same person? I can see Jean being a familiar version of Genora.

I think that Emma Genora and the Emma Jean on the headstone are two different people BUT I think that the person that did the obit on Findagrave didn't know this and put in the Allindar surname. [if that makes any sense!]

Emma G would have been born too early to be Emma Jean.

I'm not saying that Genora couldn't be a version of Jean either, it very well could be, [I just don't think that is the case in this case] :)

Darksecretz
31-10-16, 09:48
That's what I am thinking too, hence the suggestion to get in touch with the findagrave contributor for Emma Finley b 1909.

Christine

just checked their profile and they have messages disabled.. not very helpful!

Mirrytindle
31-10-16, 18:09
Hi everyone

Our internet has been down so just managed to get back on.

I managed to track down a relative of Emma Jean Cox and they do not know where the Allindar names comes in, I am thinking someone just presumed without treble checking, which I have come across alot.

I found a Kentucky entry for Garland and his 2nd wife that stated he was not previously married, but I have now obtained a copy of his married cert to 2nd wife and it states Widow, so he was definitely married to Emma Jean Cox.

I really am not sure why the VA want to know about his wife who died in 1976. His 2nd wife is 96 years old, she does not have the ability to go searching for this information just to keep a roof over her head.

I'll keep trawling through the records see what pops up.


I know records in my home country of the UK are more available with one central BMD look up, but here in the US it's very difficult and soooo frustrating. Someone mentioned why Garland was married with his first wife when he had a 2nd wife. I though that was odd too, but having asked, Garland and Emma had purchased their graves and his 2nd wife and her first husband had also done the same so she will be buried with her first husband. Odd maybe but I guess when your gone your gone.

When Garland signed up for the Army in 1941 he stated he was single and came out in 1943 so am thinking maybe 1942 at the earliest to when I found the street directory in Owensboro I think it was 1948. Thanks so much for everyones input, I am very appreciative.

Darksecretz
31-10-16, 18:37
Hi everyone

Our internet has been down so just managed to get back on.

I managed to track down a relative of Emma Jean Cox and they do not know where the Allindar names comes in, I am thinking someone just presumed without treble checking, which I have come across alot.

I found a Kentucky entry for Garland and his 2nd wife that stated he was not previously married, but I have now obtained a copy of his married cert to 2nd wife and it states Widow, so he was definitely married to Emma Jean Cox.

I really am not sure why the VA want to know about his wife who died in 1976. His 2nd wife is 96 years old, she does not have the ability to go searching for this information just to keep a roof over her head.

I'll keep trawling through the records see what pops up.


I know records in my home country of the UK are more available with one central BMD look up, but here in the US it's very difficult and soooo frustrating. Someone mentioned why Garland was married with his first wife when he had a 2nd wife. I though that was odd too, but having asked, Garland and Emma had purchased their graves and his 2nd wife and her first husband had also done the same so she will be buried with her first husband. Odd maybe but I guess when your gone your gone.

When Garland signed up for the Army in 1941 he stated he was single and came out in 1943 so am thinking maybe 1942 at the earliest to when I found the street directory in Owensboro I think it was 1948. Thanks so much for everyones input, I am very appreciative.


Hi Mirry,

The fact that he was buried with his first wife kind of makes sense my grt grandmother is actually buried with her 1st husband too...

it just seemed odd at the time and I wasn't thinking!

Sarah [Photofamily] suggested to get in touch with the Owensboro library as they have a genealogy section and may be able to help.

what about his army records? does it show where he was posted out to? did he serve abroad?

have you asked the VA why they want to know so much about Emma? surely the fact that you can provide a marriage certificate to his current widow should bare some weight?