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  • Help needed understanding a Scottish birth certificate

    Morning all
    im researching my fathers side family history which is Scottish and now deceased.

    ive ordered and received my grandmothers birthday certificate yesterday and I'm a bit confused. On the left hand side of the certificate there's a blank column before the registration number which says "Adopted" and is then signed by a registrar.

    Does this mean she was adopted? It's the first thing that's come to my mind but a bit surprising as we weren't aware of any adoption. Also is the adoption at birth or at any other point in her life. We know she lost both parents by the time she was 11 was she then adopted.

    if she was adopted what route do I go down to find out what happened.

    many thanks

  • #2
    Hello Clarzier and welcome to FTF.

    Yes, she was adopted. But, as you know her birth name, it seems likely it was an "in family" adoption and she kept her birth name. I am not sure about Scottish law, but in England and Wales, adoption is a private matter and information is not given to third parties. I expect it will be the same in Scotland.

    What does her marriage certificate say, about her name, her father,s name, the witnesses etc?
    What year was she born?

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      What year was this. Official adoption didn't begin up here till 1929. I'm surprised you were given any of the two birth certificates if there was an adoption. The new scheme for allowing descendants of deceased adopted persons will not apply in Scotland.
      There will be the original birth certificate and the one produced when the adoption took place. The second one will have the child's new name (forename/s sometimes stayed the same) and who the parents now are. This certificate would be all that the person was entitled to have back then.
      Are the parents on the cert you received the ones you expected or not? The date the certificate was registered will give you a clue whether it's the pre or post adoption one as you already know she was orphaned at roughly age 11.
      I expect what you have got is the original birth certificate with the adoption mentioned in column 1 which is where any corrections are noted eg. ref nos for documentation in cases of disputed paternity.
      If a child's name changed or added to after a successful claim for paternity, the ref no for the court summary of the case with instructions as to what the changes are to be was written in column 1. Should the child in question ever order a copy of their birth certificate in the future, they would be issued with one with the corrected information and no reference would be on it to the original.
      Likewise the certificate produced upon adoption has no mentioned of the child's former details or their legal status. Remember, people used to have no legal right to know who they once had been.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you so much for your quick replies.

        You will have to forgive me as the information I have currently isn't the best and as my grandmother is now deceased very limited. I know she was born in 1930 and I had her full name. She did used to tell us her mothers name and also her fathers name and his occupation, she explained how her mother had died quite young and she was around 9 years old and her father died a couple of years later. She was very open about the circumstances of her fathers death and the whilst waiting for her certificate to come I managed to find 2 people who fitted her circumstances and when the birth certificate came it just confirm that I was following the right direction.

        The date of birth of the certificate is the correct date of birth that we have always known was hers and the registration of birth is 4 days after her date of birth. She lost her father in 1941 when she was 11 and she said when she was alive she was passed around various relatives and nobody wanted her. She said she had a uncle in the Midlands which is why she came down here and then met my Grandfather and the rest is history. She never really gave Any relatives names so I don't know where to search from that point of view.

        Would her adoption been when she was born? I know her mother was only 21 and her father 56 and a widower. He was a confectioner and her mother his assistant.

        I don't have a copy of their marriage certificate but looking at ancestry (the were married in Midlands) it stated her maiden name as the one on her birth certificate. Maybe I should try and get a copy of it

        Comment


        • #5
          Just had confirmation that she was adopted but the adoption was in 1941 which was the year her father died. She was adopted around 2 months after his death but the records say the unusual thing about it was that she kept her birth name. All they can tell me she was adopted but no other information. I now have a missing piece of the puzzle what happened to between 1941 and 1950 x

          Comment


          • #6
            I wonder if her father made a Will mentioning who was going to care for her, as presumably she is likely to be a beneficiary.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't think it was unusual for her to keep her birth name at age 11 it would have been traumatic for her to change her name and there wouldn't be much chance of her forgetting her past.

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Clarzier View Post
                ...but the records say the unusual thing about it was that she kept her birth name.
                I would not have thought there was anything unusual in keeping the forename(s) for an 11 year old. It would have been rather traumatic and cruel to have to change after all that time.
                Are you saying that she also kept her own surname as well rather than taking on that of her adoptive parents?
                If so, then it makes me lean towards the adoptive parents being related to the child in some way already and/or they were a very enlightened couple who might have given the child the choice of which surname to use.

                Comment


                • #9
                  As her father is deceased, perhaps you could post his name and when and where he died so we could look in the probate indexes to see if he did leave a will.
                  Presumably, her mother is also deceased so if you know her name and she married in Scotland up to 1940 then you should be able to see the certificate if you join ScotlandsPeople and purchase some credits. The limit for online viewing of marriages is 75 years, so if she married up here from 1941 onwards you would have to purchase a certificate for £15. Each year, another historical year is released for viewing.

                  If you do in fact have the original birth certificate, it ought to say where and when her parents were married. This will be in the same column as the father's name and occupation and the mother's maiden surname and occupation if any.
                  The next column along will show who registered the birth.
                  If the couple were not married but the man accepted paternity, they may both have gone to the Registrar. If they were married, either father or mother would have gone. If they were not married and the father did not accept paternity or perhaps the mother just did not want to say, then she would have registered the birth on her own. There is another variation to the last scenario - mother may well have known who the father was and given his name which would be entered as eg. "Joe Blogs (reputed).
                  In any event, if the parents were not married, in column 2 underneath the child's name would be written the word "Illegitimate".
                  The child could later be legitimised following the parent's subsequent marriage. In this case, there would be a reference to changes made in column 1 - the same place that you have found the word adopted on your certificate.
                  There are clues to be found if you know how to interpret what's on the certificate. Hope the above will help you a bit with that and I haven't totally bamboozled you :-)
                  Last edited by GallowayLass; 20-10-16, 17:32.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                    I would not have thought there was anything unusual in keeping the forename(s) for an 11 year old. It would have been rather traumatic and cruel to have to change after all that time.
                    Are you saying that she also kept her own surname as well rather than taking on that of her adoptive parents?
                    If so, then it makes me lean towards the adoptive parents being related to the child in some way already and/or they were a very enlightened couple who might have given the child the choice of which surname to use.

                    I didn't think it was unusual too but the lady at the records office said it was as a child usually adopts the new parents names. She kept all her birth names.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by GallowayLass View Post
                      As her father is deceased, perhaps you could post his name and when and where he died so we could look in the probate indexes to see if he did leave a will.
                      Presumably, her mother is also deceased so if you know her name and she married in Scotland up to 1940 then you should be able to see the certificate if you join ScotlandsPeople and purchase some credits. The limit for online viewing of marriages is 75 years, so if she married up here from 1941 onwards you would have to purchase a certificate for £15. Each year, another historical year is released for viewing.

                      If you do in fact have the original birth certificate, it ought to say where and when her parents were married. This will be in the same column as the father's name and occupation and the mother's maiden surname and occupation if any.
                      The next column along will show who registered the birth.
                      If the couple were not married but the man accepted paternity, they may both have gone to the Registrar. If they were married, either father or mother would have gone. If they were not married and the father did not accept paternity or perhaps the mother just did not want to say, then she would have registered the birth on her own. There is another variation to the last scenario - mother may well have known who the father was and given his name which would be entered as eg. "Joe Blogs (reputed).
                      In any event, if the parents were not married, in column 2 underneath the child's name would be written the word "Illegitimate".
                      The child could later be legitimised following the parent's subsequent marriage. In this case, there would be a reference to changes made in column 1 - the same place that you have found the word adopted on your certificate.
                      There are clues to be found if you know how to interpret what's on the certificate. Hope the above will help you a bit with that and I haven't totally bamboozled you :-)

                      My grandmothers name is Alicia Greenshields Wilson, 11/08/1930 @ 62 Adelphi Street Glasgow

                      Her mothers birth name was Janet Maud Currie, born 26/12/1907 she married William Cameron Wilson on 31/12/1928

                      her fathers name was William Cameron Wilson no dob at the moment but his date of death was 5/5/1941. He was a confectioner. He died at home at 159 Mathieson Street Glasgow

                      my grandmother was adopted by unknown persons on 23/07/1941

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Clarzier View Post
                        Just had confirmation that she was adopted but the adoption was in 1941 which was the year her father died. She was adopted around 2 months after his death but the records say the unusual thing about it was that she kept her birth name. All they can tell me she was adopted but no other information. I now have a missing piece of the puzzle what happened to between 1941 and 1950 x
                        I have a neighbour I have helped with his tree and he has a sort of similar situation. His mother died when he and his brother were young and their father was not accepted by his mother's family so when the mother died his aunt and uncle took the two brothers in and adopted them.

                        I expect the uncle of your grandmother, who you say she came to live with in the Midlands, adopted her. I expect they had to go through a formal process to make the situation legal and safe for her.

                        I doubt they would want to change her name - a bit like my neighbour who never changed his name and who knew about his father.

                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Isn't there an adoption register at some main libraries ie Birmingham? Not sure what information it contains though.



                          Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            JBee

                            The adoption was in Scotland.

                            The (English/Welsh) adoption register contains no useful information and does not cross reference in any way to birth registers. Only the Registrar General can connect the two.

                            OC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks OC - wasn't thinking lol



                              Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                JBee

                                Well, it's an unusual situation, isn,t it! Birth name known and kept, adoptive parents not known or mentioned even.

                                OC

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