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  • Naturalisation records?

    Can anyone help please. Looking for a friend - her great grandad was a Charles Stephen Friedman (or Freedman and the family then became Freeman - friend thought Freeman was his name). She had family story he was from Sweden, possibly a Jew from Russia orignally.

    Ive had a look and yes, found a Charles Friedman in 1861 on an english boat as crew off Flamborough Head born about 1841 in Gothenburg, Sweden. He marries a Susanna Speakman in Leeds in 1872 as Charles Freedman (I cant find him in 1871 - may be on a boat again). He marries in the parish church, so apparently not a practicing Jew.

    He is naturalised by 1891 (in the 1881 he is still shown born Sweden, no mention of naturalisation til the 1891).

    I would love to find more about him for the friend. On ancestry some one has him in their tree and has added a father "Erich" but no other detail. Ive tried looking on NA for naturalisation record but no luck.

    Any ideas please?
    Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 04-09-16, 20:47.

  • #2
    did you know they have naturalisation records on Ancestry Heather

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    • #3
      Cor, Heather, we have a very famous Friedman thread on this forum! But I don't think your man is related.

      Don't be misled by the marriage in the C of E, many Jews married in Christian churches. It didn't mean they weren't practising Jews. My late Mil was Jewish, she married in the C of E but I am sure she also had a Jewish marriage ceremony and that would have been the one which mattered.

      OC
      Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 04-09-16, 21:13. Reason: Stupid kindle predicted text!

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      • #4
        NB. He married Susanna Speakman in Sunderland Parish Church not Leeds!

        Oh how lovely to see you here OC xx
        Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 04-09-16, 21:21.

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        • #5
          VAL No, couldnt find him. I wonder whether he would use a different name? I mean I seem to recall Jewish tradition they had different names for different occasions, didnt they?

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          • #7
            Thanks Val, thats not him is it :( It says he is naturalised on the 1891 so there must be a record somewhere.

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            • #8
              Um, just because he said he was naturalized doesn't mean he was.


              Yes, Jewish people, men in particular, have several different names which they use according to the occasion.

              We found on the other tread that many of the Friedmans went to Dublin to live.

              OC

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              • #9
                Yes spose so, but would there be any advantage to him to lie on the census? Yes, they do change names dont they and of course, is Charles a very swedish/jewish name or just an easier anglicised version of something else.

                My friend was saying something about family legend being that he was a stowaway on board a boat ,but would there be a reason for that? Was Sweden so bad for Jews at that time? say mid 1850s. Ive done a bit of reading on here and it seems that Jews were confined to just three cities at that time, one being Gothenburgh from whence he came. So his parents must also have been in that city. Hmm.

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                • #10
                  Have you seen this, Heather....http://www.bpears.org.uk/2012/04/cha...r-russian-jew/ Not sure if this is your friends work...
                  Jacky

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                  • #11
                    That is a great find Jacky

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                    • #12
                      OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! How on earth did you find that you clever clever girl. Id googled my fingers off with his name and Jews Sweden. Thanks so much. No. My friend has done no work at all on this, she was just sitting here and I said with her thick curly black hair and bright blue eyes (both daughters same as her) she must surely have Irish roots and thats when she came out with this long lost story of her mums about ancestor being a Swedish Jew. We both laughed at the absurdity of it (so we thought) at the time but now......................

                      Woo hoo. I shall go back and read all that again and print photo for her. BLESS YOU.

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                      • #13
                        Glad to be of some help, Heather.....it was the photo that "got me"....hope the info gives your friend some direction with her roots now.

                        Can you tell I love Jewish genealogy...:D
                        Last edited by Tilly Mint; 05-09-16, 10:50.
                        Jacky

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                        • #14
                          Wow, super result, Jacky! Heather do we know if your friend knows this Brian who wrote the piece?

                          Anne?

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                          • #15
                            There is a post on this site...looks like the same chap, it has the posters names at the side..(maybe a contact here) the post is near the bottom

                            Jacky

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                            • #16
                              Great result Jackie.
                              Heather don't forget to click on the further link at the bottom for recent info.
                              Kat

                              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                              • #17
                                Well, I am still gobsmacked. I dont know how you found that. I have just text my friend about it and Ive already started doing an extra tree on ancestry for her so Ill add the photo to it (I wish he had the other two guys in it but may be now I will contact him when Ive worked out his relationship to my friend - looks like they are both through maternal side. Friends mother was a Freeman.

                                Amazing, you can have a cake and coffee break on me Jackie I am sposed to be doing the accounts for G which are now 5 months late.......................how can I when exciting things like this come up!!! Reminds me of how exciting it was when I first started this.

                                By way, Jackie, still cant find the marriage of my GGPx4 Edward HOrstead born 1735 and Elizabeth Selby born 1841 both died in their late 80s/90s in Norfolk but first I have of them is in 1768 when they get a cert to move about 1 mile

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                                • #18
                                  Have pm ed you, Heather lol
                                  Jacky

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                                  • #19
                                    Well, I am still gobsmacked. I dont know how you found that. I have just text my friend about it and Ive already started doing an extra tree on ancestry for her so Ill add the photo to it (I wish he had the other two guys in it but may be now I will contact him when Ive worked out his relationship to my friend - looks like they are both through maternal side. Friends mother was a Freeman.

                                    Amazing, you can have a cake and coffee break on me Jackie I am sposed to be doing the accounts for G which are now 5 months late.......................how can I when exciting things like this come up!!! Reminds me of how exciting it was when I first started this.

                                    By way, Jackie, still cant find the marriage of my GGPx4 Edward HOrstead born 1735 and Elizabeth Selby born 1741 both died in their late 80s/90s in Norfolk but first I have of them is in 1768 when they get a cert to move about 1 mile

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                                    • #20
                                      I have pm-ed you Heather...lol
                                      Jacky

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