A Birth A marriage and a 1939 Look up.

[scouse007]

Hi
Can someone help me with the three following problems that I need to sort now, have tried now and again over the years with no luck.

1- My Grand fathers Birth - James Murray b 1890 Died In 1964 Liverpool Lancashire(Father is Thomas Murray and Mother Sarah Hyslop)(Have sent for three B/certificates to be told not the right parents for him) Yet in the 1911 census which I have 2 questions about , he calls himself Harry James Murray....this fella was a character.
2 -The 1911 census is James Murrays new wifes Family Elizabeth Ellen Banks Her Father is John Banks her mother Sarah Ann died in 1901 her Father is with Charlotte , it states they have been married 28 years, Can not find any marriage for them at all, I have the 1891 census for John and Sarah and two eldest children but cannot find them in 1901...John must have met Charlotte after 1901, They have put the children down as brother and sister to them... Also they have their daughter in the list and in the last minute she joins the with her hubby and her name is Murray...odd 1911 census.
3 - Can you help me by letting me know were they in 1939. All members of the the families were born in Liverpool except James Murrays mother whom was born in Scotland.
ANy help with this confusion would be appreciated.

[JudithM]

Can you give either a reference or a link to the censuses you have found the family in as I am struggling to find them using the names you quote.

[Jessbowbag]

Thomas and Sarah married in 1872 ( just looking for a time frame ) - 1911 - 28 = 1883 ish for second marriage.

Do you know his mother was deffo sarah?

[Jessbowbag]

Marriages Dec 1909

BANKS Elizabeth Ellen Liverpool 8b 49
MURRAY James Liverpool 8b 49

you request is actually quite confusing as to what you know/want

[scouse007]

Sorry for the late response as things popped up, the 1911 census with elizabeth Murray has been misspelt "Munay" the link is http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/75...77417673/facts or if this helps

455

Walton

3

22359

[scouse007]

Hi Yes the mother was definitely Sarah Hyslop shown also as Hislop on one birth for a child.

[scouse007]

Sorry it does come across confusing but it is all connected...I can not find my Grandfathers actual Birth date and would like to know where James and Elizabeth were living and whom with in 1939...

[Anglebar15]

Hi Scouse 007,

In the 1939 Register, the most likely contender I can see is: James Murray born 10 Oct 1889 (as he was born in the last quarter of the year, and he not have been registered for a while, it is likely the parents registered him in 1890, which is the year you have)

His wife is Elizabeth Ellen born 16 Dec 1889, and there is a school age girl, Marion James (later Gibson) i.e.her Married name written into the Register after she married.

Marion's birth date is 22 June 1930

Their address is 78, Whitefield Road, Liverpool C.B.

Hope this is of some use to you.

Angela

[Anglebar15]

Scouse,

I forgot to add that James' Occupation is that of 'Hydraulic Lift Asst.'

Also I have just noticed that I wrote Marion's name incorrectly - it is Marion Murray (with the, later, married name, Gibson, being in brackets, to show it has been added at a later date.

Angela

[Katarzyna]

1901 census Everton, Liverpool
Piece: 2957
Folio: 23
Page Number: 40

Thomas Murray 42 Sailor -seas
Sarah Murray 37
John Murray 11
Thomas Murray 9
James Murray 1
Mary Ann Hyslop 67 MIL
Thomas Hyslop 41 Brother in law -Sailor

[Katarzyna]

1911 census

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2352&h=19340664&ssrc=pt&tid=102577247&pid=390017002388&usePUB=true

[Katarzyna]

1901 census Everton, Liverpool
Piece: 2957
Folio: 23
Page Number: 40

Thomas Murray 42 Sailor -seas
Sarah Murray 37
John Murray 11
Thomas Murray 9
James Murray 1
Mary Ann Hyslop 67 MIL
Thomas Hyslop 41 Brother in law -Sailor

Sorry that should read 1891 census

[Katarzyna]

If Angela's 1939 record is correct then this is James Murray's Royal Naval Reserve Ratings Record of Service:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8543097

[Katarzyna]

For some reason I cannot find this on Ancestry. You used to be able to put in the Piece, folio and page but cannot see how to do it for 1901 England

1901 census

First name(s) Ellen
Last name Banks
Relationship Daughter
Marital status Single
Gender Female
Age 17
Birth year 1884
Birth town Maghull
Birth town as transcribed MAGHULL
Birth county Lancashire
Birth county as transcribed LANCASHIRE
Other household member first name(s) ELLEN, JOHN, ALICE, ROBERT, ELIZABETH, ANNIE, MAGGIE, HENRY
Other household member last name BANKS, BRIDGE
Street Acacia Grove
Town -
Parish Walton on the Hill
County Lancashire
Municipal ward Warbreck
Registration district West Derby
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 3451
Folio 81
Page 30
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

[Katarzyna]

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?pcc=2&db=uki1901&indiv=try&h=20601686

Just found this on Ancestry using this 'work around' I found on Stephen Morse's site

Can be used for all Ancestry Censuses - great find!

[Katarzyna]

Edit to above:

I THINK this is the correct census BUT
Elizabeth Ellen is as Ellen Banks and the relationships are muddled. Ellen 17 and her father John 36? are 'children' of Ellen - Widow age 60 so they need a bit of sorting out.

[Katarzyna]

Name: John Banks
Baptism Date: 15 May 1864
Parish: Maghull, Lancashire, England
Father: Robert Banks
Mother: Ellen Banks
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl/2/32

[Katarzyna]

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: John Banks
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 27 Aug 1883
Marriage Place: St. Mary'S, Kirkdale, Lancaster, England
Father: Robert Banks
Spouse: Sarah Ann Dutton
FHL Film Number: 1545938
Reference ID: Vol 8 P214 CN428

Have you tried this one?
Marriages Sep 1883 (>99%)
Banks John W Derby 8b 773
DUTTON Sarah Ann W.Derby 8b 773
Foy Catherine W. Derby 8b 773
RANKIN Francis W.Derby 8b 773

[Katarzyna]

If that birth date is correct then maybe this should be the one for James as his parents were living in Everton at the time.
Dec 1889
Murray James W. Derby 8b 315

Hope it's not one of the three you ordered before.

[scouse007]

Hi now try for James Birth cert, thanks for this, I have searched for this for nearly 10 years, I am very hopeful as Marion is my Mother so it sounds very hopeful ;D